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TO-30 engine refurbish

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pomester
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:26 pm    Post subject: TO-30 engine refurbish Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I've had this TO-30 for several years and use it regularly for light duty tasks on a farm. When I purchased it there was an issue with coolant use and when first started after sitting it would run on three cylinders for a short while and exhaust some white fog. I just kept the coolant topped off and since it's not used hard just lived with the problem. Recently the coolant issue has gotten worse and the engine suddenly developed a leaky rear main seal.

So it's time to address the issues. I pulled the head today expecting to find a cracked block but hoping that a head gasket might cure the problem. I found a broken valve spring on #1 exhaust. I found coolant in #3 cylinder but no obvious route from the coolant jacket to the cylinder. I see no sign of any cracking associated with the block. The head gasket shows deterioration between #2 and #3 cylinders, but no leakage between them or from the coolant jacket to the area.

I'm going to keep going deeper. To replace the rear main seal will require near full disassembly. Hard to say what I'll run into associated with main and rod bearings/crankshaft condition. I'd like to return the machine to good operating condition with the minimum of money spent.

I'd solicit any suggestions from members here about proceeding. My current plan is to remove the oil pan and pop the pistons out. The cylinders exhibit minor wear near the top, I've seen worse and if I don't find any real problems I'll hone and re-ring.

The rear main seal worries me - the engine has been decently oil tight, then suddenly there was a small but steady stream of engine oil exiting the bell housing - not a drip, but a stream. It seems to be all or nothing, sometimes it would start and run and no leak, the next time it would pump out the engine lubricant in a couple of hours of running. Dunno - All I know to do is look at the area, evaluate the condition of the crank and bearings, and replace what's necessary.

some pictures for you














 
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pomester
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: TO-30 engine refurbish Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Here's a little something I've been setting on for 3 years -



I'll have that area open shortly... should I install the Sherman?

How would I locate the shifter hole? How would I drill the hole? Except for that aspect it doesn't look like it would be too bad of a job....
 
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ErnieD
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: TO-30 engine refurbish Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Lay a straight edge (carpenters square) across the head; I am betting you will find it warped. How was the oil pressure? I am
betting the coolant wiped out the seal and maybe a bearing or two. Long time ago I saw a drilling template for a Ford, but don't
know about a Ferg 30. Cast iron will not drill bad. Pilot hole and good sharp bits.
 
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Steve@Advance
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:56 pm    Post subject: Re: TO-30 engine refurbish Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The head gasket was obviously leaking, that explains the coolant in the oil and #3.

The rear seal streaming oil will be real difficult to properly repair without pulling the engine. Likely
there will be some crank and bearing damage from the contaminated oil, or just from wear.

My suggestion would be to go ahead and pull the engine, get it out where you can see what's there. It's
really not that much more work considering the option of laying under it with oil dripping in your face.

Something else, if you are not aware, the cylinder liners just sit in the block with oring seals at the
bottom. If any move up, the seal will be broken and the liner will need to come out to be resealed. Not an
easy job when sediment from the coolant gets under the liner!

Those seals really need to be replaced anyway, at their age they have to be deteriorated.

I've done inframe overhauls before, but usually when the engine was in relatively good condition other than
smoking. Even then it's a big shortcut than can easily come back to haunt you.
 
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RM-MN
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: TO-30 engine refurbish Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Your TO30 will be twice the tractor with a Sherman in it if it is a step up/step down. You will have many more possible gear combinations to mess up. Having grown up with one, I'd be lost without my Sherman.
 
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Tom H.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: TO-30 engine refurbish Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I?m with Steve on this. Pull the engine, get an inexpensive engine stand to park the engine on to work. A sleeve puller is easy to fashion out of threaded rod and angle iron. Look for small cracks between the lower webs, like the one you have on top. A machine shop can put bolts into the block to pull the cracks together, this is called pinning. I have had three blocks done this way. In the end you will have a strong and fresh engine.
 
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pomester
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: TO-30 engine refurbish Reply to specific post Reply with quote

yes - with the rear main seal issue there's really no option but pulling the engine -

I worked this evening getting the block de-accessoried and the front suspension out of the way - tomorrow I'll have to set some vehicles outside (it's winter here again, cold and snow) and dig the engine stand out of the loft -

it's going to be real easy to get more money wrapped up in this than the machine is worth - there's no place to stop...


 
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pomester
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:57 pm    Post subject: Re: TO-30 engine refurbish Reply to specific post Reply with quote

yes - the Sherman is combination - and the appropriate model for a Ferguson, altho this machine has the original starter mechanism bypassed and just uses a key switch... do I fix that too? $$$ -

dunno - guess I'll see what this engine is going to take and go from there -
 
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RM-MN
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:14 am    Post subject: Re: TO-30 engine refurbish Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The original starter linkage was a safety item. You cannot get run over by starting the tractor while it is in gear. I'd want to return it to that state.
 
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Kirk-NJ
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: TO-30 engine refurbish Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sure slap it in. Did you have it apart? Is it good to go? Don't see many ferguson sherman. I pull this one out of a TO30. It's a ford case that has been altered. Top, one on the left. The back
of the Case also altered to fit. If someone needs it to fit the ferguson and has the ford case I would swap.
I could tell you where to locate the hole on the ford. I guess it's best to put it in and take measurements. Drill a small pilot hole before you use the holesaw to make sure you are on the
money.



 
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pomester
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: TO-30 engine refurbish Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Kirk-NJ wrote:
Did you have it apart?


When I got the Sherman (wish I had some before pictures, it was the nastiest grease/oil ball) I cleaned it up and checked out most of it - it's a bit hazy now, I believe I went thru everything but removal of the countershaft - Smith's site is invaluable - there was nothing wrong - bearings good, no corrosion, no significant wear, all systems functioning - I will look it over again before installing and I do have a new seal to install - I feel very fortunate, usually these types of things turn into big deals

I've seen 'hole saw' mentioned different places associated with Sherman installation - what kind of hole saw is used for cast iron?

speaking of big deals, I think that is where this engine is headed... it is out and I need to make a run to the hardware tomorrow to get some long enough bolts to get it mounted to the engine stand - then get the internal components out and see what I'm up against - it looks like it's been TISCOed at some point, the bore is 3 3/8", but how the crank was dealt with remains to be determined - I'm concerned that every component will need rebuilt/refurbished/replaced - the clutch, it's worn some, how can I not replace the disc? and he pilot and throwout bearing? even tho they feel fine....$$$


 
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Kirk-NJ
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:03 am    Post subject: Re: TO-30 engine refurbish Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yea, replace the seal before install and fill with oil.
 
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pomester
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: TO-30 engine refurbish Reply to specific post Reply with quote

We are having fun now -



I did find the rear main seal issue - spring that holds it tight around the crank was broken -



I am happy with what I've found, generally - the bearings look like new - - I'm thinking about things, but I'm inclined to reuse them - they are standard bearings - I am up against lack of tools now, I don't have a set of micrometers that can check the crank and rod journals - I'll have to either borrow or haul the crank somewhere -



I don't see any sign of the block cracking at the lower end of the web - rod bearings look just as good as the mains, I haven't examined the pistons/wrist pins closely yet, but it seem likely that I can buy a set of rings and get back in business -

Someone mentioned pulling the sleeves and resealing - the sleeves are sealed to the block with o-rings? o-rings of the sort that are available at a hardware store? I'm not opposed to doing that, but I'm not looking for trouble either....

I've got to decide about the head - there's a broken spring, so do I replace that, have the head ground flat and move on, or go all the way with guides, springs, valves, etc? -

dunno - usually at this point I go all the way with things, clean-up and paint, etc, but it's difficult in freezing temperatures - I can't get the pressure washer out and it's going to be too cold even for the carwash for the foreseeable future -

dunno - what do you all think?
 
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Tony in Mass.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: TO-30 engine refurbish Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It's nice to see you are getting the vanilla pudding out of there.
Auto zone usually 'loans' tools, it shouldn't take you long to mike everything with a dial caliper. It looks good from the pics.
The o-rings and springs might be available on this site's online store. You need a gasket set at the least, but yeah, while it's this far, do the o-rings now. Leaks are a big sore spot on this model. And might as well get a new clutch while is down that far too.
 
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Kirk-NJ
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: TO-30 engine refurbish Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Here a copy of installation of sherman

 
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