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Is gas cutoff story la myth?

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duey
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Dad never did turn the thing off and neither did I for al the years we owned/used it... To each his own...
 
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Caryc
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-duey wrote:
(quoted from post at 22:07:35 04/16/1Cool Dad never did turn the thing off and neither did I for al the years we owned/used it... To each his own...


I takes a few seconds to turn that little valve off. How much time, effort and money does it take to have to drain the crank case and add all new oil?

You've seen people here say it actually happened to them. So you know it can happen. Isn't it worth the simple effort to turn it off?
 
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Tall T
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

While we're on the subject . . .

Last month I put premium grade gas in the tractor and the next day, my valve went from being so loose I could turn it with one finger against my little knob pointer, to so hard to turn it had me worried.

So as people here said to conclude, I also concluded it was ethanol in the fuel. But the service station assured me there was zero ethanol in their fuel — which may or may not be true I guess.

Anyway . . . I drained the tank and put in what I had been using before that, "Mid Grade" marked gas. Bingo! Two days later the knob was back to feeling normal and actually a little better because it seemed so easy to rotate before, that I half expected it to start leaking one day soon.

So if there is indeed no ethanol in this company's fuel, then there's something about this HyTest fuel (or any Premium fuel maybe) that swelled up the stem seal.

 
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Ultradog MN
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:45 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Speaking of pots...

If I had set out to stir the pot I might
have suggested they convert to 12V and add
an in-line electric shut off valve.
I might also have suggested they dispense
with their old gravity job and buy a newer
tractor that has a fuel pump - or maybe, is
a diesel. Remind them they'd get more
sleep, more gears and maybe power steering.
My point was not whether to turn your fuel
off but the grave warnings and dire worst
case scenarios that were brought up if you
don't.
On the other hand, we all know your
penchant for calling the kettle black.
 
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Tim PloughNman Daley
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:53 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You have your answer as shown by all the replies. I'll just add this from the original '9N INSTRUCTION BOOK': "When tractor is to be idle for 30 days or more, drain the entire fuel system including the gasoline tank. Fuel should be removed through the bottom of carburetor, with Sediment Bulb Valve on "reserve" (means all the way fully open). Gasoline, when stored, forms a gum or wax which has a tendency to clog up the small pores and openings in the carburetor. For the same reason, do not use which has been stored for more than 60 days." The debate on ethanol mucking up these old systems will go on forever, and there is no need to run a Premium grade gasoline in these engines. The exception may be if one has an optional Sherman Hi-Compression aluminum head. As we see by the diagram of the Fuel Sediment Bulb Assembly, there is only one part that is essentially the working, or mechanical device and that is the valve stem. There is a seal and washer in it, and that is the piece that becomes worn and/or torn over use and needs to be replaced as leaking will occur. I've had some newer aftermarket valve stems that used cheap vinyl for the seal that failed out of the box. A new valve stem, p/n APN-9194, sells for about $6 and is much cheaper than buying a whole new sediment bulb assembly. Henry Ford was a frugal man, but with a very limited education. He couldn't read a blueprint, and left the technical side of things to his engineers. His only requirements were to build things as cheap as possible so as to make this products available to the average American consumer. He had certain stipulations, but had nothing to do with technicalities. If you are still a non-believer after all that has been said here, then take coffee can and place it underneath the carb, leave the valve stem open 2 turns, and leave for a few weeks, or a month. Check can every week and then check oil and report back.


FORD TRACTOR SEDIMENT BULB & VALVE STEM :





 
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Hobo,NC
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:24 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Shut'N the fuel off is not a natural thang its something that becomes natural to ya with repetition its sort of like locking your front door when you go in at night. For all practical porous the door will stay shut even if you don't lock it...

When I got my first Harley I knew from watching everyone kick there arse off they were temperamental. They learned fast to turn the fuel off when they shut it down I spec folks with hand crank tractors learned that also... I can tell you from experience after you kicked your arse off for 30 min. it became repetition to turn the fuel ON when you went to start your scooter Smile....

Its sum'N you have to make yourself learn to do it only takes one bad experience to go into training mode... I started my career with old timers they had devised some neat tricks to overcome there lack of resources modern technology has eroded it away...

Something as simple as installing a fuel pump they would install the pump but leave it loose them manually rock the pump till it primed the system. Lack of resources like a battery charger are weak 6V systems that did not allow them to be able to crank on it till it picked up the fuel...
 
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Greg (2N) TX
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:59 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well I guess this thread separated the perfect float valve setters from the realists who who like a little insurance.
Greg
 
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markct
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:53 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You do know that only two grades of fuel
are delivered to the gas station, mid is
a blend of the two
 
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Tall T
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-markct wrote:
(quoted from post at 06:53:13 04/17/1Cool You do know that only two grades of fuel
are delivered to the gas station, mid is
a blend of the two


Market,

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind!

T
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Tall T wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:17:05 04/17/1Cool
CVPost-markct wrote:
(quoted from post at 06:53:13 04/17/1Cool You do know that only two grades of fuel
are delivered to the gas station, mid is
a blend of the two


Market,

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind!

T
Put about 1 inch of water in a 16 OZ water bottle, then fill to about 3/4 full with gasoline, shake well, let set/settle for an hour +/- and see if water/separation level is still 1 inch. If still 1 inch, then ethanol free, if level at separation point increased, the fuel has ethanol in it. Google for pictures. I have performed this test more than once....it works. It is simple.
 
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Tall T
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

JMOR,

Good stuff;will put on file and perform the test.

Thanks
 
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Royse
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

"The only tractor engine I can think of that this would be possible is any two cylinder John Deere engine."

JD even ran the shutoff valve handle up through the dash so you could shut it off from the seat of the tractor.
Most are just empty holes now, since the sediment bowl has been replaced, but the hole is still marked.

It really PO'd me on a Briggs and Stratton once. Hydro-locked right after a rebuild.

I had a Farmall BN that also leaked gas into the oil.
It had bad enough rings to leak it all into the oil and not hydro-lock.
Luckily, I noticed that the crankcase was over full.

It certainly happens. I personally think it happens now more than it used to.
I don't believe that's because of ethanol fuel so much as how these old tractors are used.
More specifically, the lack there of.
We never turned the fuel off on our JD 2 cylinders when I was a kid.
They were used almost daily.
Now, we turn it off every time but they're only used a few times a year.
And then there is the difference in parts quality too. Both needle AND seat.
 
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R Geiger
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Royse wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:24:56 04/17/1Cool "The only tractor engine I can think of that this would be possible is any two cylinder John Deere engine."

JD even ran the shutoff valve handle up through the dash so you could shut it off from the seat of the tractor.
Most are just empty holes now, since the sediment bowl has been replaced, but the hole is still marked.

It really PO'd me on a Briggs and Stratton once. Hydro-locked right after a rebuild.

I had a Farmall BN that also leaked gas into the oil.
It had bad enough rings to leak it all into the oil and not hydro-lock.
Luckily, I noticed that the crankcase was over full.

It certainly happens. I personally think it happens now more than it used to.
I don't believe that's because of ethanol fuel so much as how these old tractors are used.
More specifically, the lack there of.
We never turned the fuel off on our JD 2 cylinders when I was a kid.
They were used almost daily.
Now, we turn it off every time but they're only used a few times a year.
And then there is the difference in parts quality too. Both needle AND seat.


My two cylinder JD has a sediment bowl and shut not unlike my 8n's. I shut it off because the stem leaks, and it only get ran a few times a year.
 
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wellmax99
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have an old TO35 Ferguson, I always cut the gas valve off,
Most times it will not leak, but every once in a while it will,
If it does you can normally smell fuel odor, just pull air inlet hose off and drain the fuel before you try to start engine,

In my book it?s just not worth taking a chance on lt leaking

I understand they even make an automatic fuel cutoff valve, you wire it to the ignition circuit so when you turn off the ignition, it turns off the fuel line valve,

My luck in time it would start leaking, so I just cut off valve myself,
 
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Royse
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

R Geiger wrote:
(quoted from post at 21:37:03 04/17/1Cool
Royse wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:24:56 04/17/1Cool "The only tractor engine I can think of that this would be possible is any two cylinder John Deere engine."

JD even ran the shutoff valve handle up through the dash so you could shut it off from the seat of the tractor.
Most are just empty holes now, since the sediment bowl has been replaced, but the hole is still marked.

It really PO'd me on a Briggs and Stratton once. Hydro-locked right after a rebuild.

I had a Farmall BN that also leaked gas into the oil.
It had bad enough rings to leak it all into the oil and not hydro-lock.
Luckily, I noticed that the crankcase was over full.

It certainly happens. I personally think it happens now more than it used to.
I don't believe that's because of ethanol fuel so much as how these old tractors are used.
More specifically, the lack there of.
We never turned the fuel off on our JD 2 cylinders when I was a kid.
They were used almost daily.
Now, we turn it off every time but they're only used a few times a year.
And then there is the difference in parts quality too. Both needle AND seat.


My two cylinder JD has a sediment bowl and shut not unlike my 8n's. I shut it off because the stem leaks, and it only get ran a few times a year.

Still got the hole in the dash? I'm not sure what all models/years had that. My '46 A did and '53 50 does. So did my '54 60.
 
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