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Firearms caliber question.

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SodBuster87
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:23 pm    Post subject: Firearms caliber question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

So looking at a new revolver. I am looking the ballistics charts. My question is in "the real world" what is more important FPS velocity or Ft-LBS of energy. I'm looking at a couple calibers which are a small bullet moving fast and a couple of bigger calibers which are slow moving. Looking at for example a . 38 spl which is a 125 Gr bullet but only has 225ft-lbs but a .22 WMR is a 40Gr bullet and has 324ft-lbs. But in the real world what is going to have more knock down?
 
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jeffcat
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Firearms caliber question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Have heard many times that the 22 mag. is not the most acurate round.
I have a Winchester leaver action in that caliber. Wouldn't trust it
beyond 125yds. Handgun of course is a whole nother story. Ask us with
what you want to do. Give us a bit more to play with.
 
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TimV
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Firearms caliber question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There's no "right" answer, Sodbuster, but a lot of beer has been consumed over the years while "discussing" the topic, and there's no shortage of people with absolutely no idea what they're talking about who will loudly declaim their version of reality to the exclusion of all others--kinda like polly ticks! Bullet weight, bullet construction, velocity, bullet frontal area, plus of course accuracy (everything else is meaningless if you don't hit where you need to) and several other factors all play a role in terminal performance. As Jeffcat aaid, perhaps a better way of going about it is to tell us what your planning to do with the revolver and use that as a basis for what might be a good choice.
 
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JD Seller
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Firearms caliber question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It is a combination of bullet mass and velocity. The applied force goes up proportionally with mass but up with the square with velocity. Meaning if the bullet is twice as heavy it will only hit twice as hard. If it is going twice as fast then it will hit four times as hard.

Other things to consider. Distance to target and what your wanting to shot.

The further away the more important mass is. The old Buffalo guns had low velocity but huge bullet mass. So they still hit hard at long distances.

With closer targets then velocity is more important as it will not have dissipated as much. Example would be a .38 when compared to a .357 . They both have bullet weights that are close but the .357 hits much harder because of its higher velocity.
 
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john *.?-!.* cub owner
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Firearms caliber question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You are going to get a lot of replies, but the larger hole and higher ftlbs are what you want. You need to be able to disable the opponent quickly. To do that with the 22 magnum you will need to hit specific areas, plus it takes a fairly long barrel for the 22mag to achieve the speed you specified.
 
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SodBuster87
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Firearms caliber question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a .22WMR right now. Looking for something bigger. I was leaning towards a .38spl but looking at the charts threw me for a loop. Bigger slug but less energy? Looking for a bump in the night gun. Mostly for four legged bad guys .38spl could shoot rat shot. But hard on the barrel newer stuff is in a capsule supposed to be better.
 
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TimV
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Firearms caliber question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The .38 special is the most popular (measured by number of guns sold) centerfire revolver round, and it's hard to go wrong with it. Good, modern guns will usually be +P capable, which gives a useful bump in performance over normal-pressure .38 Specials, made to be safe in guns that could well date from the late 18th century when the cartridge was new. One thing to consider with a .38 special is barrel length. A 4" barrel will often give a considerable velocity boost over the standard 2" or thereabouts "snubby", and a longer sight radius, often with better sights to boot. With that said, think about stepping up to a .357 magnum--it gives a considerable power boost in a gun that's essentially the same size, and maintains the ability to shoot .38 specials. A 4"-barreled .357 is probably as close to a "universal" handgun as you're apt to find, with ammo choices from plinkers to self-defense to small and even large game hunting at reasonable ranges, all in a package that's relatively easy to carry or even conceal if necessary.
 
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blue_tractor_man
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Firearms caliber question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I recommend you buy a handgun that you
like, understand how it works, feel
confident with it, can afford to practice
with it, has sufficient stopping power. I
carry a .380 all day, every day. People say
"That's not enough gun". I say "OK, stand
there and let me shoot you". They get the
point. In the dark, muzzle blast is muzzle
blast. No one is going to stand there and
question the caliber when he is being hit
in the chest. Remember, the goal is not to
kill the person, but to stop the threat.
Some people like revolvers. Fine. Buy a
.357, practice with .38's, carry .357's.
Some people like 9mm. Fine gun. Practice
and carry it.
I'm in agreement that a short barrelled gun
will not give you the full FPS on the fast
stuff.
Another consideration is it is always a
good idea to carry common self defense ammo
in case you have to use it and explain it
to a jury.
 
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Mark - IN.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Firearms caliber question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

For sidearms, mine are all revolvers. The smallest is 6" barrel .22 long that has a cylinder that can be swapped out to .22 Mag. The largest that I have are three .500 Mags from 4" to 8-3/8" barrels. Back in the mid-80's I had a cousin murdered after being shot in the head three or so times with a .22 long so a .22 long can most definitely be lethal.

A couple of years ago I considered purchasing my first and only pistol, a .22 TCM manufactured by a company called Rock Island Armory. The model that I was looking to purchase two of, one to fire and one to collect came with two swappable barrels that are .22 TCM and 9mm. The thing about the .22 TCM is that the rounds are .223/.556 about an inch shorter than a typical round. Has an incredible velocity for a pistol.

This is a tractor forum and I don't want to make trouble or get poofed, but if you're looking for a good revolver you might want to consider a .460 Mag. They will fire .460 Mag and .454 Casull at about $2.50 to $3.00 per round, but will also fire .45 Long Colt for much cheaper plinking.

Good luck and always, always operate your farm equipment safely. Never get tooooooo comfortable around any of it so that you don't get bit by any of it.

Mark
 
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Stephen Newell
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Firearms caliber question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bullet weight and fps are both important. A 22 you could shoot someone several times before stopping them where a 45 would be more likely to lift them off their feet. The police and military now mostly use 9mm so that would be a pretty mid-range. Besides the 9mm ammo is cheaper.
 
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Goose
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Firearms caliber question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

A good comparison is a NATO 9mm and a 1911 .45. The 9mm is a smaller round with a higher velocity than the .45. However, feedback I get from fellow Marines in Iraq and Afghanistan is--if you shoot someone with a 9mm, all you do is pizz him off. Nail him with the good old .45 and he's down.

Why? A smaller round moving at a higher velocity can simply penetrate and exit an enemy's body doing minimal damage. The larger round moving slower will create all sorts of mayhem and lodge in the middle of the body, continuing to be problematic.

That's why, several years ago, the Corps said to heck with NATO's 9mm and ordered over $20 million worth of .45's.

From a practical standpoint, several years ago I had to put down a couple of stray dogs. I hadn't much choice or much time. They were terrorizing our neighbor's kids. I grabbed the first thing handy, a 9mm auto. It dang near didn't get the job done. It took at least two vital organ shots and one direct head shot on each dog to put it down. I went through two magazines just putting two dogs down at short range. I'm sure I'd have gotten the job done a lot faster it I'd had the time to get my 1911A .45 out. Or my .44 Mag for that matter.
 
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DeltaRed
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Firearms caliber question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I carry a .380 ACP. Light weight,easy to carry.Semi auto. Like prefer revolvers but IMHO,for everyday they are too heavy and cumbersome. Everybody's preference is different.Buy whatever feels good in your hand,go with your gut.
 
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JDIH
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Firearms caliber question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Blue_tractor_man wrote:
(quoted from post at 20:06:22 08/12/1Cool I recommend you buy a handgun that you
like, understand how it works, feel
confident with it, can afford to practice
with it, has sufficient stopping power. I
carry a .380 all day, every day. People say
"That's not enough gun". I say "OK, stand
there and let me shoot you". They get the
point. In the dark, muzzle blast is muzzle
blast. No one is going to stand there and
question the caliber when he is being hit
in the chest. Remember, the goal is not to
kill the person, but to stop the threat.
Some people like revolvers. Fine. Buy a
.357, practice with .38's, carry .357's.
Some people like 9mm. Fine gun. Practice
and carry it.
I'm in agreement that a short barrelled gun
will not give you the full FPS on the fast
stuff.
Another consideration is it is always a
good idea to carry common self defense ammo
in case you have to use it and explain it
to a jury.


+1
Get one you're comfortable with. Shot placement is more important than caliber size, imo
 
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ss55
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Firearms caliber question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ditto on control and placement within your range. A miss has zero stopping power.
 
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old
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Firearms caliber question. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My carry pistol is a simple 22LR semi auto. Years ago I shoot a 380 at a 55 gal drum and the rounds bounced off but a 22LR round went in one side and out the other. What I would prefer to carry but it is to big is my 44mag but it is to hard to hide unless it is winter time. But that 44mag I have taken a deer out to around 60 yards one shot.
 
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