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Sell the M for a Stage II Super M? Help!

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Ken Christopherson
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:16 pm    Post subject: Sell the M for a Stage II Super M? Help! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hello all!

Well, I looked at a Stage 2 Super M today. Runs good, idle is a little rough (easy fix). Question is, it grinds pretty bad going into 1-4
gears even at an idle. (Doesn't matter how long I wait for the input shaft to stop turning)... Belt pulley grinds when engaged as well. To
me that sounds like the clutch isn't stopping the shaft from spinning. Typically does this warrant the clutch needing to be adjusted or
more of a replacement? Otherwise tractor seems pretty nice. 12 Volt with generator. Lights work. Tires checked but hold air. Rims good. Tin
straight, some dents in grill.

I would be selling my 1947 M to upgrade to this tractor... It is either that or I would create a project for myself by keeping the M and
installing all Super M hydraulics/cam gear onto it for loader work.

I'm looking to make the purchase soon, so would like some input please and thank you! (Picture is of the tractor)



 
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NY 986
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Sell the M for a Stage II Super M? Help! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If it grinds then the clutch needs attention. If the clutch disengages then the transmission input shaft should stop turning after 10 seconds or so. A stage 2 Super M is highly desirable and I say this as a M owner.
 
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DR. EVIL
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Sell the M for a Stage II Super M? Help! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The grinding into gear could be a bad pilot bearing in the flywheel, or a warped clutch disk. I see it has the clutch throw-out lever extender, that reduces the amount the clutch actually releases, might remove that quick and try it. My straight M has one too and it shifts fine. That bottom cover on the center torque tube is just a cover I think, much lighter than the belly pump would have been, so inspecting the clutch and linkage will be less work. That tractor has just enough prior owner cobble jobs to be irritating, the Super M decals in the wrong spot, replacement lights, should have the flat pancake lights.
For a loader tractor Power Steering is almost a requirement. I don't have P/S on my Super H with loader but have it on my M, and that makes a Huge difference in which tractor I use. I loaded 20-25 loads of brush in a 6 ft x 10 ft x 4 ft high dump trailer 2 yrs ago, Never even considered using the tractor without P/S.
 
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erskine2017
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Sell the M for a Stage II Super M? Help! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

the regular m is geared better. the super is too fast in third and too slow in second for plowing.
 
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Ken Christopherson
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Sell the M for a Stage II Super M? Help! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I won't be doing much plowing with it. Mostly just snow plowing, and loader work. Maybe dragging some trees with it on occasion.
 
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Ken Christopherson
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Sell the M for a Stage II Super M? Help! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

One thing I probably should have mentioned - the tractor did sit in a barn for about 12 years until recently. All fuel was drained at the time of storage. When they pulled it out, a fresh battery and gas and it started right up. Tractor runs real nice except for a rough idle. I have a loader on my M now that would be going to the Super M. Wouldn't be an issue without power steering, since I don't have power steering on my M.
Gentleman says it is 12 volt, but it looks to have a generator on it still. No cooling fan on the generator, so I am a little skeptical on it being a true 12 volt tractor. I would be pulling the platform off of it that was added, as it will not work with the loader I have. I mainly use my M for snow removal and occasionally lifting the odd heavy object. Not doing any hay bale moving or anything.

Steering has your typical shake in road gear, but is not too bad.
 
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Ken Christopherson
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Sell the M for a Stage II Super M? Help! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The tractor did sit for about 12 years inside a barn - I am wondering if it might just be sticking a little bit and needs to be worked hard to get some of the crud burnt off. Worse case scenario is it needs a clutch replacement with pilot and throwout bearing. But, I think the price is right on it, so I may just take the jump. Worse case scenario is I can sell it if I decide to go another route.
 
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ss55
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Sell the M for a Stage II Super M? Help! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Check if the Super M clutch can be replaced through the bottom of the clutch housing without splitting the tractor, similar to some M's and H's.

If you are paying a premium for a collectable tractor, you might consider jumping up to a Farmall 400, 450, 560 for the same money. Independent PTO, power steering, Torque Amplifier, extra horsepower, stronger hydraulics, extra hydraulic valves, and maybe a Fast Hitch are all handy upgrades. A Farmall 300, 350 or 460 could have the same options in a slightly lighter tractor than an M.

A Case 400, 700, 800, 730 or 830 would be similar to the Farmall 400-560 tractors only with 8 speed transmissions instead of a TA. Oliver 88, Super 88 and 880 would also be similar and popular in the twin Cities area.
 
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Whiskey Bent
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Sell the M for a Stage II Super M? Help! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Check the rear end oil. I bought a SH that was that way and the rear end was very low on oil. Filled up and now doesn’t grind. The oil helps slow input shaft from turning when clutch pushed in.
 
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Ken Christopherson
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Sell the M for a Stage II Super M? Help! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

From what I am researching, the clutch should be able to be serviced through the bottom without splitting the tractor. I really am not partial to the styling of the later model Farmalls. I've got my eyes out for a Hart Parr 70, so that takes care of my Oliver craving. Wife says my magic number is "8". I'm up to 6 now, so if I get the Super M, the regular M has to go. I have two more tractors I have on my "LIST" that will fit the bill of "8".
 
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Ken Christopherson
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Sell the M for a Stage II Super M? Help! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I also was thinking that this might be the cause as well. Thanks for reinforcing this!
 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Sell the M for a Stage II Super M? Help! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

A super M clutch will not come out of the bottom. Jim
 
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Ken Christopherson
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Sell the M for a Stage II Super M? Help! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Good to know. Also, good thing I am comfortable splitting an M/Super M. I put an offer in on the tractor, we will see if he bites.
 
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DR. EVIL
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:20 am    Post subject: Re: Sell the M for a Stage II Super M? Help! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Straight H & M do have closer spaced gear speeds, but that HUGE jump from 5 mph 4th to 16 mph 5th just sucks. I'll take the 6-1/2 mph 4th in a Super H/Super M any day! I use them ALL the time! I never had a problem plowing in 3rd gear with our Super M-TA or 450. Dad even had a Stage 1 Super M for a couple years with the Fast 4th..

Think it was about 1966/'67 Dad installed the Fast 4th gear set in our '51 M, has the same faster 2nd, 3rd, & 4th the Super's had.

Biggest problem with the stock straight M was everybody tried to plow in 4th gear, that over-stressed the pilot bearing in the transmission, accelerated wear on that bearing, and in severe cases caused the knob the pilot bearing set on to break off, really tearing things up. Super H's/Super M's had larger pilot bearings in the transmission. Plus the faster 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears were in my opinion, better plowing gears, because most people won't try to plow 6-1/2 mph. but 3-3/4 & 5mph are good plowing speeds. Our SM-TA pulled 3-14's in 3rd in old corn ground and sod, pulled 4-14's in 2nd.

I think the stock H/M gears are best described as corn picking gears, 2nd and 3rd were good picking gears.
 
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DTK
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:15 am    Post subject: Re: Sell the M for a Stage II Super M? Help! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

To quote Bud, a genius blacksmith from sw Mn. " I always wanted a Super M, just for the prestige."
 
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