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Single wire alternator/conversion


 
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Kirk-NJ
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:06 am    Post subject: Single wire alternator/conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I am doing a 6v to 12v conversion on my 841 for the right reasons. My question is on a single pole alternator does it have an internatal voltage regulator in it? If so than I will not be using my 6v regulator for this conversion?
Kikr
 
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Bob
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:25 am    Post subject: Re: Single wire alternator/conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Obviously, a "one-wire" alternator has an internal regulator.

Obviously, you don't use a 6-volt voltage regulator from a generator system with a 12-Volt alternator.

Now, PLEASE let us talk you into using standard "3-wire" alternator, rather than the (goofy) "one-wire alternator". They are generally CHEAPER, start charging at a lower speed, and drain the battery less when the machine sits unused for a few weeks.

Installing a "3-wire" alternator takes only a few feet of wire and a (cheap) diode, "idiot lamp", or 10 Ohm, 10 Watt resistor.



 
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GlenIdaho
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:37 am    Post subject: Re: Single wire alternator/conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Kirk;

Review the attached link. It will be of great help. It was prepared by John in La, a longtime knowledgable contributor.
12 volt conversions

 
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K-Mo
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:19 am    Post subject: Re: Single wire alternator/conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I went with a 3-Wire. A one wire alternator uses a special "low turn on" internal regulator which may not turn on until a sufficient RPM is reached.
By going with a common 3-wire Delco SI alternator, 1) The regulator is turned on by the ignition switch. 2) If I have an alternator failure, I can go to town, get a $25 rebuilt and be back in operation.

K-Mo
 
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Kirk-NJ
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: Single wire alternator/conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bob,
If it were that obvious to me I would not have asked the question. I am still learning about the conversion and that's why I asked the question. I thought that this is what this forum was all about and questions were welcome no matter how dumb they may seem to others.
Kirk
 
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john in la
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Location: Bedico, La.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Single wire alternator/conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Be very carefull when choosing a 1 wire alternator. Most conversion kits state that you are getting a 1 wire alternator but you really are NOT getting that. It will work with a 1 wire set up but requires reving the engine all the way up to get it to start charging.

If you read the link Glen gave you it will show you where you can buy a true marine 1 wire alternator if you really want to go that way.

If you decide to follow our advise and go with a common 3 wire set up we can show you how to wire the stock dash warning light your tractor came with from the factory.

To answer your question.....
A 10si alternator that is used in most conversions does have an internatal voltage regulator in it. The alternator will replace your generator and voltage regulator.

Once you decide what you want to do come back because I have wiring diagrams you can use to do it right the first time.
 
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Brian Allen
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Location: Durham, Ontario, Canada

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: Single wire alternator/conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi.
Remember, these guys are trying to be of assistance to you, I know how frustrating it is to try to figure out stuff on your own.
Just be patient and digest all the information you get and always remember "there are no stupid questions"
If you don't have a manual, take the time to get an operator's manual and repair manual for your machine.
Good luck
Regards
Brian
 
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Kirk-NJ
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:08 am    Post subject: Re: Single wire alternator/conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

One on the reasons I asked the question was because I contacted a couple of places the have the conversion kits and asked them if it was a 1 wire or a 3 wire alternator and they both told me a 1 wire.
Kirk
 
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john in la
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:37 am    Post subject: Re: Single wire alternator/conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Like I said they tell you it is a 1 wire but I can assure you it is most likely NOT a 1 wire alternator. It will work as a 1 wire but you may not be satisfied with the preformance.

It is a choice you need to make. Read all the post from others and then make a dicision. We can help you ethier way you go but we can not choose for you.

Look at this picture......



This is a conversion I did to my 861 tractor. I explain how to do it in the link that glen gave you. It has a alternator you can get at any AutoZone for $39.99 For a little more you can even get one with a life time warrenty.
It also requires some all thread rod a few nuts and bolts and some wire and wire ends.

Look at it this way...
A true 1 wire alternator sells for $89.99 and the kit is only $129.99.
Now if I had a alternator that will work as a 1 wire even though I know it is not a true 1 wire.
Everyone else is selling the same alternator I am and using the marketing ploy of 1 wire setup because it sells as easy to install.
If I tell you my alternator will work as a 1 wire but it is really a 3 wire you will buy from the other guy. RIGHT.....
Is all marketing!!!!!!

So you are on the correct route. Do your home work and read past post here. Start another post and ask advise from others that have done a conversion with a kit and those that have done it by putting a system together from local parts.

Then when you decide what you want to do we can help you along.
 
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souNdguy
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Single wire alternator/conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

No one said it was a dumb question.. we are just trying to point you in a direction that will prove to be the easiest for a new user, down the road.

soundguy
 
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Kirk-NJ
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:51 am    Post subject: Re: Single wire alternator/conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

John,
I looked at your link. It was very informative. The steps you lay out make it seem relatively easy. I will go with the delco 3 wire and follow your directions. I will post back if I run into any problems. Do you know who sells the bracket? Do you have the measurements for this bracket so I can try to make one?
Thanks for your help, Kirk
 
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Keith Williams
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Location: Eastern Ohio

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:20 am    Post subject: Re: Single wire alternator/conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Kirk,
For the bracket, as a start, try this.
Remove the existing generator.
Unbolt the existing bracket.
Flip it front to back.
Bolt the bracket back on.
Hold the alternator you purchased in front of the forward tab.
Do the pulleys line up? I am told that they do. If so you can then just buy a bolt long enough, or a piece of all thread 3/8, to go through the bracket and the alternator. If you look at "JOHN in LA"'s picture, I believe that is what he has done.
Then if you ever want to put the rig back to 6 volt you still have the original bracket untouched!
KAW
 
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john in la
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Location: Bedico, La.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:50 am    Post subject: Re: Single wire alternator/conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Kirk;
You can still buy the conversion kit as long as you understand what you are getting. The alternator they send you; if wired as a 3 wire works great and you get the brackets in the kit.

You can also buy the brackets by them self from places like Walts Tractor.

Now while I do not know how neat you are or if will work practical will do but here goes.

If your wiring is old and a mess I recomend pulling it all out and starting over. If it is in good shape we can just show you how to splice a wire at the old regulator and use the old wires. Soundguy is better at explaining how to do this than I am.

You can get a alternator at AutoZone. Ask for part # 7127. I would get the life time warrenty as it is only $10 more. ($49.99)
I have found the orginal pully on the alternator is good enough and no need to change to the wider one.

If you must be neat get a bracket or make one. If not take off your generator and flip the generator bracket over. Then get some all thread from home depot. You will also need 4 nuts and 4 flat washers. I like to get 1 self locking nut to use toward the front. The top bracket will now line up with the back of the alternator but it works well.
Look at my picture above.

Do not mess with getting a resistor for the coil. I would rather spend a few extra dollars and just change out the coil. Napa has a true 12v coil. Part # IC14SB for about $18.00.

If you still have the dash charging light in your tractor we can use that. If not we can tell you how to fix it or you can get a diode from radio shack like the one Bob shows in his picture below.

You will also need a spade terminal plug for the side of the alternator. AutoZone has these on the shelf for about $10.00

Now you have less than $100 in your conversion and you have a system with a life time warrenty alternator and a real 12v coil. You did not save much money because of gas cost running around finding the extra parts but you have done it right the first time. Time we add a battery and a fan belt you will be running for less than $200.00
 
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Kirk-NJ
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:29 am    Post subject: Re: Single wire alternator/conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for all the advice guys. All the wiring is for crap so it's all coming out and start new. When I pulled the old battery out the tray was rotted beyond repair so I order a new one along with a 12 volt gauge. The generator bracket was broke in half so I'll have to pick up a replacement. I've got to get some timber down and out off the woods while the weather is good. Walnut and oak is selling pretty good now. I'll start putting the tractor back together as soon as I pick up all the pieces and can find some time. I'll let you know if things go wrong. Thanks again for all the help.
Kirk
 
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