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John Deere 4020 hydraulic problem. Where to start?

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TigerPaw4020
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:18 pm    Post subject: John Deere 4020 hydraulic problem. Where to start? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hydraulic pump is screaming. No steering, brakes, or lift. What checks should I make to troubleshoot and in what order, preferably anything with tractor off first since it sounds like it is destroying itself when cranked.

Tractor is 4020 early model 1966.

No warning or problems leading up to failure. On day of failure, just idleing around property with light trailor hooked to hitch bar on 3pt hitch arms, loading limbs and light debris, starting and stopping, occasionally raisng lift to dump trailor. Sometimes leaving tractor idleing for moderate periods, sometimes shutting off and restarting. Problem appeared instantly and loudly on last restart as soon as tractor cranked. No problems noticed with steering, brakes, hitch, or starting beforehand.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
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RobMD
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: John Deere 4020 hydraulic problem. Where to start? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

When has the trans filter and screen been changed/cleaned, respectively?

Pump may be starving for oil, transfer pump in the transmission may be defunct.
 
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Tx Jim
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:09 am    Post subject: Re: John Deere 4020 hydraulic problem. Where to start? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Always start by changing hyd filter & cleaning sump screen as previously suggested. Then check hyd. pump drive coupler for stripping. Next check trans pump output by disconnecting line by hyd. filter that feeds oil to front pump. Order or borrow a JD tech manual.
 
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Ray Tellin
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:13 am    Post subject: Re: John Deere 4020 hydraulic problem. Where to start? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would start by pulling out the sump screen (drain oil first) to se if it is plugged. The sump screen is located in the front of the left axle towards the bottom. It is about 2 inches around and you can use a 1/2 breaker bar to get it loose(if it seems real tight give it a smack with a hammer, trust me it works) If that was ok I would then see if the charge pump was turning. You can tell if it is by removing the top link braket on the back of the tranny case and removing the plug that is behind it. You should now be able to see a hex shaft and if you start the tractor it should turn. Keep us up to date with what you find. Good luck!
 
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buickanddeere
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:48 am    Post subject: Re: John Deere 4020 hydraulic problem. Where to start? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Generally problems from plugged filters or screens appear gradually. If the front pumpvibration dampener and drive is ok. Then perhaps a broken/stuck relief valve, stroke valve or diversion valve?
Time to put a pressure gauge on there and start checking before throwing parts at it. We get people on here all the time, they take a wild guess and replace the front pump. Problem turns out to be a stuck $9.99 issue.
 
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Gerald J.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: John Deere 4020 hydraulic problem. Where to start? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

SM-2039 is the right manual for that tractor.

Gerald J.
 
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TigerPaw4020
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: John Deere 4020 hydraulic problem. Where to start? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks guys.

I recently purchased the tractor and have no sure history on it, however previous owner (70+ year old retired school teacher/tinkerer with good reputation, but likes his distilled spirits a little too much) said that tractor was completely serviced including replacing all fluids and filters when he was cleaning it up to sell. He said it only had a few hours on the complete service, and to just plan the next service intervals as if it had 10 hours on it when I got it, and I have less than 50 hours on it. It appears to have been babied, looks in excellent condition, and has performed flawlessly up to this point.

Game plan is:
1. Inspect filter
2. Disconnect coupling and turn pump by hand to see if anything seems wrong there.
3. With coupling disconnected, run tractor and check for flow and pressure in main pump supply line from trans pump by cracking line coupling. ( Is it necessary to measure this flow and pressure or sufficient to just see that some exists? )
4. Drain and inspect fluid.
5. Inspect and clean screen and magnet in screen. (previous owner said he had one installed in the screen when serviced a few years ago)
6. Refill with new new fluid and install new filter.
7. Reinstall coupling and check pressure and flow from main pump.
8. Pray for good news somewhere along the way short of a new pump. John Deere wants $2200 for a rebuilt one. Ouch!

Any additional ideas? Rearrangement of order?

Couple of other questions:
1. Are filters from NAPA OK or do I need to stick to John Deere parts?
2. Is John Deere Type 303 fluid required or are there suitable substitutes? Is normal tractor hydraulic fluid OK?

It is a lot closer to the local NAPA and oil suppliers than to the closest JD dealership.

Thanks again for all the help.
 
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buck eye al
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: John Deere 4020 hydraulic problem. Where to start? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Is maybe instead of spinning the hydrauilic pump, the coupling is just spinning on the stalled splined pump shaft?

That would maybe cause a decent "scream" as you put it.
 
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Tx Jim
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:19 am    Post subject: Re: John Deere 4020 hydraulic problem. Where to start? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Ray Tellin,

4020 syncro-range trans pumps do not have hex shaft you referred to in your post. Trans pump on 10-20 series drives off of top trans shaft. 30-55 series non-powershift trans row-crop tractors have such a hex drive shaft for trans pump.
 
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TigerPaw4020
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re: John Deere 4020 hydraulic problem. Where to start? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

[quote="buck eye al"](reply to post at 23:05:50 04/13/09) [/quote Is maybe instead of spinning the hydrauilic pump, the coupling is just spinning on the stalled splined pump shaft? ]


Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner! Very Happy
The coupling was indeed spinning on the shaft.
It looks like the coupling had the splines machined out of it, but I'm sure it must have done that when it spun.
Why are the plines so shallow in the coupling?
Is this the weak link like a shear pin?
Or is it just that the bolts clamping the split coupling to the shaft weren't tight enough or worked loose?

Next question... How hard should it be to turn the hydraulic pump by hand?
I can turn it, but not by hand. It takes a 8-10" long lever arm.

Thanks again for all the help.
 
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buickanddeere
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:38 am    Post subject: Re: John Deere 4020 hydraulic problem. Where to start? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Not to brag but I posted the answer several hours previous to buck eye al.
 
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TigerPaw4020
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:43 am    Post subject: Re: John Deere 4020 hydraulic problem. Where to start? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Quote:


Sorry buickanddeere, not meaning to ruffle any feathers, but I didn't see yours. Thanks also.

Any comment on how hard the pump should be to turn by hand?

 
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TigerPaw4020
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: John Deere 4020 hydraulic problem. Where to start? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

[quote]

Sorry buickanddeere, not meaning to ruffle any feathers, but I didn't see yours. Thanks also.

Any comment on how hard the pump should be to turn by hand?
 
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TigerPaw4020
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:54 am    Post subject: Re: John Deere 4020 hydraulic problem. Where to start? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have another question for the experts.

Can this tractor be driven safely with the hydraulic pump drive coupling removed?

Will anything be damaged if tractor is operated without pump running?

Will I have any even minimal steering or brakes?

I sure would like to get it back to the shop rather than trying to work on it in the field.
 
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