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Ford 5000 Hydraulics


 
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Fred Werring
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Joined: 15 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 9:06 am    Post subject: Ford 5000 Hydraulics Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Since I’m going to need the tractor in a couple weeks for hay work, thought it was time to quit messing around and fix the thing.

First of all, found out what started the no pressure problem. I have a plate under the remote valve that supplies hydraulics for a front loader, when the loader isn’t on there, the hoses have to be connected for flow . The hoses got kicked apart while my hay help was mowing, deadheading the pump. Of course, didn’t find this out till a week ago, (after the part about the new pump) when he told me that after he put the hoses back together, the haybine raised real slow.

Went to eyeball the relief valve on the pump, discovered it wasn’t screwed down tight, thought “WOO-HOO, this is gonna be easy!” tightened it down.

Still no pressure.

Pulled loader plate and remote valve, found a blown o-ring, installed new o-rings, bolted it back up.

Still no pressure.

Couldn’t remove relief valve without removing pump, the valve wouldn’t clear the transmission to engine flange. (Thinking of taking a grinder to the flange and removing about 1/8” in front of the valve so it"ll will clear if it ever needs to come out again) When the pump came out, discovered 2 things:

The strainer at the end of the pickup tube was broken off, which is why there were a bunch of chips in the pump and relief valve, and the relief valve spring had been shimmed out at least 0.250” , about 3 times farther than what the manual says is the max, effectively eliminating any pressure relief.

Because of the chips, went ahead and bought an ebay pump with relief valve, new strainer, cleaned out the sump, put a few automotive transmission magnets in the sump to help catch chips, and bolted it up.

Still no pressure.

Tried a small mirror in the fill hole on the top cover, couldn’t see anything but it was getting splattered with oil when the remote was dead-headed, so I know it’s spewing oil in there somewhere.

Pulled the top cover, found the o-ring blown that supplies pressure to the top cover. I’m sure that is the cause of the low pressure, but while I’m in there, gonna replace the o-rings and seals (especially since all those chips had been circulating through the system ‘cause of the busted intake strainer) to try and fix the bobbing problem on the 3 point.

Question: bought a Tisco top cover repair kit, and the o-ring and backing ring for the lift cylinder don’t seem to fit a tight as what was removed, and the backing ring has a small 1/8” gap on the ends. Is that acceptable? Or should I get a new o-ring and backing ring from the dealer?

Thanks

Fred

Original post from September:


Fred Werring
09-20-2008 21:08:22
66.82.9.58
427778

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A few years ago, the 3 point quit working on my 1971 5000. Before it quit, the 3-point had some leak down, but very slowly.Had it worked on, when the tractor came back, it had low pressure at the remotes, about 600psi. Dealer came and got it again, when I got it back it had 2400 psi at the remotes, but the 3-point bounced up and down under load a lot. ( I call it the automatic agitator for when I’ve got the sprayer on the back) After many discussions and parts (including a new pump and a 3-point lift cylinder rebuild) the dealer said it had to be something in the top cover and it would cost way too much to repair. I was tired of giving them money, so the tractor came home.So I’ve lived with the bouncing 3 point for the last few years, today I’m out mowing hay and it won’t hardly raise the head on the haybine. I checked the pressure at the remotes and I’m down to 800 psi at 1900 rpm. Fluid levels are fine.Since the local dealer isn’t going to get another shot at this, I’ve got my IT shop manual and am ready to go (well maybe in the next couple of weeks, I want to get the hay done first)Just hoping somebody might have seen this before and could point me in the right direction before I start replacing parts.Thanks
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Old Ford Mechanic
09-21-2008 08:40:35
75.249.91.184
427812

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Re: Low Hydraulic Pressure Ford 5000 in reply to Fred Werring, 09-20-2008 21:08:22

Fred,remove the hydraulic filter and cut it open.If its full of metal filings i"d say your looking at pump replacement.Be sure to flush everything out and use new oil if you relace the pump.And sometimes worn brake lining material can get in the pump oil and cause problems.The erratic lift sounds a o-ring leak between the lift ram cylinder and the lift cover.As a general rule in my dealings with the Ford hydraulic pumps,low pressure checked at the remote usually equals a weak/worn pump.Sounds like your dealer needs to take a long hard look at his service department crew.
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RodInNS
09-21-2008 05:01:39
216.118.158.123
427795

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Re: Low Hydraulic Pressure Ford 5000 in reply to Fred Werring, 09-20-2008 21:08:22

I"m not too terribly familiar with the 5000"s exact problems in the lift cover area or it"s flow diagrams... but you should study the flow schematics of how it works. The OEM manual is a lot more usefull in that regard than the I&T, but if that"s all you got, I spose it"s better than nothing.I would suggest getting the OEM manual if possible.First thing I"d look at for the leakdown in the lift cylinder itself. It may need resealing and honing. There is also a lift cylinder safety valve in the front end of the lift cylinder that can sometimes leak, so that will let the arms drop. Beyond that, there could be a bad check ball in the circuit that leaks down, or a worn control valve spool, or a mal-adjusted control valve. You could pull the left hand access cover on that tractor and have a peek in there to see where the oil is coming from when there"s a load on the arms. Somewhere in that mess you should find the leak...The lack of pressure sounds to me like a pump problem. There aren"t too many places on the hydraulic circuits of those tractors for them to lose oil... so most things I think would trace back to the pump. Could be a plugged pump strainer or blown seals in the pump. IT could also be that if the pump has a bunch of hours on it, it"s just worn out. If they get hot, run low on oil, cavitated, etc. then the pump suffers for lube. Bronze bushings with no lube equals worn out bushings which leads to a worn out pump housing...Is the PTO giving you trouble too?Rod
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Fred Werring
09-21-2008 06:38:06
66.82.9.54
427799

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Re: Low Hydraulic Pressure Ford 5000 in reply to RodInNS, 09-21-2008 05:01:39

Rod,Granted, this was 4 years ago, but the tractor got the lift cylinder overhauled and a new hydraulic pump. And I"ve put less than 100 hours a year on it since. And none of these other things started to happen until they went in and cleaned/replaced the unloader valve to take care of the 3-point not raising at all.I think what I need to do is put the bale spear on the back and try to pick up a bale.... see if the low pressure is just in the remotes or in the 3 point as well.ThanksFred
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souNdguy
09-20-2008 21:33:15
74.4.208.77
427783

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Re: Low Hydraulic Pressure Ford 5000 in reply to Fred Werring, 09-20-2008 21:08:22

The bobbing on a ford with a unloading valve setup is usually the circuit regenerating after leaking off.have you had the lift cyl resealed.. or do you know if the dealer even went into the top cover?soundguy
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Fred Werring
09-21-2008 06:45:10
66.82.9.54
427801

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Re: Low Hydraulic Pressure Ford 5000 in reply to souNdguy, 09-20-2008 21:33:15

souNdguy ,The lift cyl was rebuilt and a new hydraulic pump installed.The bad thing is, none of the other symptoms (3-point bobbing, low pressure at the remotes)happened until they went in and cleaned/replaced the unloader valve to fix the 3-point not raising at all.ThanksFred
 
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Fred Werring
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Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 1003


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 4:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 5000 Hydraulics Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Another question, should the check ball seat be tapered to fit the ball, or should it be flat, just a hole in it? And how hard should it be to get out of there? The manual implies it should come out with a hooked piece of wire, but it aint budging.

Thanks

Fred
 
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