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How to remove stuck roll pin

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Mike S
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:05 pm    Post subject: How to remove stuck roll pin Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My young neighbor friend was replacing the adjustable crank on the the point hitch on a Ford 1700 and he tried to drive out the roll pin to take the joint pin out of the top of the unit. Well, he just thought he could put a punch in there and push it out. Well, he drove into the roll pin, then broke the punch off. He tried it on both side of the roll pin so it has those broken off pieces in them. I brought the rig home hoping I could drill them out, but don't have one that will cut that hardened steel. What kind of bits do I need to buy to be able to drill the whol thing out? If I heat the whole thing up with a torch, will that make the pin and broken off punchs lose their temper so they can be drilled? Thanks for any and all suggestions. His Ma is after him to do some mowing so I want to get this fixed quick.
Mike
 
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: How to remove stuck roll pin Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There are punches made for roll pins but its too late for that now.Roll pins are glass hard.
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: How to remove stuck roll pin Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I"ve drilled out quite a few spring pins with plain old HSS drill bits - they are not particularly hard in general - usually low carbon steel unless the applicationis real demanding. But if that was a quality punch it"s a bit tougher. A solid carbide twist drill in a good drill press (or something more substantial if you have it) would be my weapon of choice. Not terribly expensive but you will likley not get it at your local hardware store I don"t see how heat is going to do any good. What size spring pin are we talking about?

TOH
 
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Mike S
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: How to remove stuck roll pin Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Looks to be about 3/16" or a bit smaller, don't have a caliper to make sure. What little bits I do have only put a small dent in the broken off punches. I do have a drill press and a drill vise that helps in centering the piece, but it is like drilling with a super dull bit and these were new ones from DeWalt. Thanks
 
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: How to remove stuck roll pin Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Mike S wrote:
(quoted from post at 22:48:40 11/03/09) Looks to be about 3/16" or a bit smaller, don't have a caliper to make sure. What little bits I do have only put a small dent in the broken off punches. I do have a drill press and a drill vise that helps in centering the piece, but it is like drilling with a super dull bit and these were new ones from DeWalt. Thanks


To soften steel so that it can be cold worked and machined is called annealing. To anneal steel is is heated to slightly above the hardening temperature and then cooled as slow as possible. Cooling is done in an insulating medium such as dry powdered lime or in vermiculite. High carbon and many alloy steels can only be cooled slow enough in a temperatue controlled furnace since the cooling rate must be only 20 degrees F per hour for several hours.

http://www.anvilfire.com/index.php?bodyName=/FAQs/heattreating.htm&titleName=Heat%20Treating%20:%20anvilfire.com
 
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wwildhorse2k
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: How to remove stuck roll pin Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I had to drill through a hardened lawn mower blade and I used a concrete drill. If you can heat the pin red hot and let it air cool it will soften it

my $0.02

-- Mark
 
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: How to remove stuck roll pin Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Drive the broken punch out with a skinny punch from the other side and then use a punch near the diameter of the roll pin to drive it out. Both of these punches must be straight, not tapered.

Areo
 
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DanH01
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: How to remove stuck roll pin Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If the drilling don"t work you probably could use a piece of roundstock the dia. of the pin and a BFH and nail one side real good. It could/might help loosen up the broken punch piece on the other side. Or it might drive the pin out.. And I know that this might damage the pin bore. But the damage may already be done.
 
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Mike S
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:58 am    Post subject: Re: How to remove stuck roll pin Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Unfortunately, he did it on both sides, so there is a broken off punch point in each end of the roll pin and he stroked them pretty hard with a BFH so it will not budge now. I might have to go looking for a machine shop. I think the closest one is maybe 30-40 miles away, tho.
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:33 am    Post subject: Re: How to remove stuck roll pin Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Mike S wrote:
(quoted from post at 07:58:24 11/04/09) Unfortunately, he did it on both sides, so there is a broken off punch point in each end of the roll pin and he stroked them pretty hard with a BFH so it will not budge now. I might have to go looking for a machine shop. I think the closest one is maybe 30-40 miles away, tho.


Sounds like he used an undersize pin punch and expanded the open ends of the roll pin making them nice and tight on the bore Embarassed If that's the case then it's likely you will have to drill out the entire length of the mess. You may be able to drill out the punch fragments but the drill is going to leave a countersink on the end of the pin and any attempt to drive it out will likely expand it again. An endmill would square it off but that's not something I would attempt with a hand held drill.

TOH
 
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trucker40
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: How to remove stuck roll pin Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you are real good with a torch you might heat it up and blast out a piece of the punch on one side then use a skinny punch on the other side to knock the punch out.Then get a pin punch the right size and drive it out.
 
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Aaron from Iowa
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: How to remove stuck roll pin Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Your best bet is to buy a masonry bit...they"re cheap with carbide on the tips. HSS bits drilling hardened punches is like cutting a wood board with a plastic saw blade
 
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gahorN
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: How to remove stuck roll pin Reply to specific post Reply with quote


A torch to heat the pin will also heat the entire device and the rollpin will transfer the heat to whateve it is in. Not a good idea...unless you want it ALL to be soft in the future.
 
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Mike S
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: How to remove stuck roll pin/update Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well, I bought the right sized punch and I soaked the thing in WD40, Kroil and PB Blaster. I hammered in one direction and then the other. Each time a little of the pin would come out and I would cut it off flush and then hammered it the other way. Finally I got to where there was just a piece in the middle and I took the BFH (good way to describe a 6lb hand sledge) and stroke it a few times and it gave up and came out. Thanks for all the suggestions. I talked him thru how to put it back together so I have my fingers crossed when I get back home on Sat.
M
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: How to remove stuck roll pin/update Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Mike S wrote:
(quoted from post at 22:24:24 11/05/09) Well, I bought the right sized punch and I soaked the thing in WD40, Kroil and PB Blaster. I hammered in one direction and then the other. Each time a little of the pin would come out and I would cut it off flush and then hammered it the other way. Finally I got to where there was just a piece in the middle and I took the BFH (good way to describe a 6lb hand sledge) and stroke it a few times and it gave up and came out. Thanks for all the suggestions. I talked him thru how to put it back together so I have my fingers crossed when I get back home on Sat.
M


In the shipyard that sort of technique is known as BF&I - Brute Force and Ignorance - one of the more popular (and productive) techniques employed by the steamfitters I briefly dealt with in days past Shocked

TOH

PS> They would have laughed at the offer of a 6# hammer.....
 


Last edited by TheOldHokie on Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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