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UPPER LIFT ARM REMOVAL

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DollarBill
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:37 am    Post subject: UPPER LIFT ARM REMOVAL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Have you put off changing the lift cover bushings due to all the horror stories about cracking the cast iron cover? Yeah, me too.

I poured over everything I could find in the archives - Hard to believe someone hasn't done a "How To" on this. So here is documentation of my experience for the next guy.

1. I started out spraying the rock shaft with Kroil penetrating oil for three days/nights. What a waste of time/material! The Dearborn Loctite (rust) has way too much grip!!

2. Next, I tried swaging the lift arm where it surrounds the rock shaft. I really believe I heard it snicker at me a few times. Swaging requires two hammers. One to bring the heat and the other serves as an anvil on the back side opposite the side you're banging on - Theoretically the metal is supposed to expand and break loose from the shaft. Apparently, my tractor does not subscribe to that theory.

3. Next, I used a brass hammer to "bump" (that word kills me) from the side of the lift arm. I pounded until my arms were like overcooked spaghetti. It was now taking both arms to scratch my head. But, it moved just enough to get a bearing separator in place.

4. I put the bearing separator and gear puller on. Tightened down the puller screw post as tight as I could get it - turned the wrench about 1/4 turn before it stopped turning. Tapped the end of the puller screw post with brass hammer - Was able to get another 1/4 turn with the wrench. Hammer, wrench, repeat. Hammer, wrench, repeat etc.... You get the idea - This is progress but painfully slow.



5. Was somewhat reluctant to use the torch for fear of weakening the steel. I have another set that came off without heat. So I pulled the trigger on the torch. Heat had the greatest effect. By now my arms were about to fall off and the lift arm had moved less than a 1/8" so I grabbed the impact wrench. After heating as big an area as possible, the impact wrench would turn the puller screw about a turn and half and then stop. Wow!! (It's the little things in life) So I pounded on the puller screw and got another turn and a half. Turn/pound, Turn/pound, etc..... Thinking this will be a bugger until the very end - no disappointments in my life!!

6. Okay, one down. One to go. Since I now had more room on the shaft, I could delete the bearing separator and clamp the puller jaws right onto the hub of the lift arm. This one started out being more difficult than the first - I now know it's snickering at me. Hit the rock shaft with a little Kroil and took the puller off and heated the lift arm again. Took a while but I had most of it glowing a dull red. Put the puller back on and tightened it down as far it would go. Did the pounding on the puller screw, tighten the air wrench dance a few more times and finally it came out!!!

As an added bonus - with all the hammering and heating, the lift bushings along with the ram arm fell out by themselves with the lift shaft just missing my foot when it hit the floor.

My advise for anyone contemplating this - First, make sure you really, really, really want to do this. You will need a lot of determination to complete this job. Some people get a break and they come off without trouble. Even a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while. Try the penetrating oil and "bumping" (that word again) the lift arm first -- Maybe you're living right and it will come off for you. GOOD LUCK.

If you don't have oxy/acet and a very stout puller - Take it to a machine shop and explain to them your objective is to press off the arms first and then press out the rock shaft and the bushings. The shaft and bushings must come out at the same time. Supposedly, this is how a lot of lift covers are cracked by trying to push the shaft through the bushings. Again, they must come out together.

Now, I have a question for all you metallurgists: Have I weakened my lift arms with the heat or are they okay to use again? I was careful not to quench them with oil and allowed them to air cool laying on the garage floor.
 


Last edited by DollarBill on Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:40 am; edited 2 times in total
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wwildhorse2k
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: UPPER LIFT ARM REMOVAL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi Bill,
Its doubtful that you changed the metal at all. Remember that the arms were cast from liquid steel when they were made. They were not forged -forging will make parts slightly harder due to compression but in this case I would not lose a minute of sleep over it. Put em back on and Roll!!!

-- Mark
 
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Dunk
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: UPPER LIFT ARM REMOVAL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Getting the lift arms off of mine is not much of a problem.

I never did change the bushings though.

Here is Hobo's "how to"

http://www.theviperr.info/hobo_dnn/Default.aspx?tabid=111
 


Last edited by Dunk on Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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lha
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: UPPER LIFT ARM REMOVAL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

not to be a smart-(*&^%,but I had to take mine off to weld[broken half way through in bend],took off little bolts,washer,and it almost fell off.Just goes to show you that you can never tell what can happen.changed king pin-axle bushing,took me 2 days between pulling hair out to remove pin.---lha
 
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Dean
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: UPPER LIFT ARM REMOVAL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I've removed many lift arms from the rock shaft. Some slide right off but most require quite a git of persuasion from a 4 lb. hammer and good piece of hard bronze. Only one required the use of a press.

I have had very little success with pullers and gave up on that technique lears ago.

Generally, the toughest ones are the oldest.

Dean
 
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Hobo,NC
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: UPPER LIFT ARM REMOVAL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

took a set off last nite,,, took another N out of its misery,,, I remove'em while the lift cover is still on the tractor,,, heat damm good with a rose bud 5min are a little more they do not have to be red hot you do not want to pass the heat to the rock shaft and have it expand also that's why a rose bud works much Bette then a cutting tip,,, a cut'n tim is so slow it allows the rock shaft to expand also...

when all the stars line up use a air chisel to walk the arm off TIP grind the end of the chisel flat so it does not cut deep into the arm,,, when you get one arm off if possible (usually is for me) use the air chisel to drive the arm and rock shaft out the other side (quadrant side) as a assy then the arm can be removed from the rock shaft in a GOOD press even then may need a little heat,,, then you can grind the arm were you hit it with a chisel were the damage can not be seen,,, I try and work the arm with the chisel 180 apart....

I will try and take a pix of the arms were the chisel is used,,,, if you are going after the bushings it does not matter if the rock shaft comes out,,, actually it works to your benefit,,, Dean can tell ya how to rotate the rock shaft in the cover to find the best unworn portion of it to use on reassy...

WARNING Shocked all I know I read on the Internet,,, do it enuff and you can become a guru also,,, not responsible for damages,,, I read it and just pass it along,,, proceed with caution
 
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Dean
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: UPPER LIFT ARM REMOVAL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bingo, Hobo.

I have found it is usually easier to remove the upper lift arms (the first one at least) while the lift cover is still on the tractor. It may be necessary to remove the fender(s), however, to get a decent swing with a hammer.

Dean
 
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JohnC IND
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: UPPER LIFT ARM REMOVAL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My '50 must have been stored inside all of its life, or someone might have replaced one of the arms on mine in the past (Witness marks don't match) They both came off with a few blows with a brass hammer. The shaft was dark colored, but no rust.Obviously, my mileage varied.
 
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Hobo,NC
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: UPPER LIFT ARM REMOVAL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

A air chisel and heat is the way to go,,, I spec I have tried every way possible even a puller,,, I had rather have a few marks like this than a arm with hammer dings,,, the chisel make seen is not as bad as it looks and can be pert near un-see-able once ground down,,, dunno if I said this in the other post,,, no heat needed to remove the other arm and rock shaft as a assy out of the lift cover,,, I have had a few that the rock shaft did come out when I removed the first arm so be careful if you are replacing just a arm,,, saw the no good arm into and split it then shock it off with a air chisel....

BTW also made a driver to use with the air chisel to drive out the hollow pin that retains the top rocker,,, a air tool zipped it out like it was put in yesterday....



[img]

[/img]

[img]

WARNING Shocked all I know I read on the Internet,,, do it enuff and you can become a guru also,,, not responsible for damages,,, I read it and just pass it along,,, proceed with caution[/img]
 
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John Smith8N
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: UPPER LIFT ARM REMOVAL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hobo,NC wrote:
(quoted from post at 02:23:07 01/03/10) A air chisel and heat is the way to go,,, I spec I have tried every way possible even a puller,,, I had rather have a few marks like this than a arm with hammer dings,,, the chisel make seen is not as bad as it looks and can be pert near un-see-able once ground down,,, dunno if I said this in the other post,,, no heat needed to remove the other arm and rock shaft as a assy out of the lift cover,,, I have had a few that the rock shaft did come out when I removed the first arm so be careful if you are replacing just a arm,,, saw the no good arm into and split it then shock it off with a air chisel....

BTW also made a driver to use with the air chisel to drive out the hollow pin that retains the top rocker,,, a air tool zipped it out like it was put in yesterday....



[img]

[/img]

[img]

WARNING Shocked all I know I read on the Internet,,, do it enuff and you can become a guru also,,, not responsible for damages,,, I read it and just pass it along,,, proceed with caution[/img]


I don't know how people get some of these rusty things apart without heat, an impact, and the air chisel. I've been using this antique CP forever and it still does the job.



With the straight drift punch or the hammer head, there's nothing better for radius rod pins, lift arms, rocker pins, and especially those badly rusted bolts holding the centers in original hat rims. You could beat with a hammer all day and never get them out, but the air chisel with the blunt drift punch will break the rust bond and walk them right out in no time. That rapid vibration works wonders.
 
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Hobo,NC
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: UPPER LIFT ARM REMOVAL Reply to specific post Reply with quote


For a regular yer smarter than a mule and yer head ain't haft as big ,,, whatcha got for driving the axle pin out with,,,I had a Ettie bitty lathe but just got a big bad arse lathe and look'n for a project,,, so far have not been able to conger up a billy bob back yard remedy from left over scrap,,, the axle is sit'n rite here beside me and have stumbled over it for a few days...

I am think'n of make'n a driver sorta like the top rocker pin driver...



WARNING Shocked all I know I read on the Internet,,, do it enuff and you can become a guru also,,, not responsible for damages,,, I read it and just pass it along,,, proceed with caution
 
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DollarBill
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:36 am    Post subject: Re: UPPER LIFT ARM REMOVAL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

John Smith8N wrote:
With the straight drift punch or the hammer head, there's nothing better for radius rod pins, lift arms, rocker pins, and especially those badly rusted bolts holding the centers in original hat rims. You could beat with a hammer all day and never get them out, but the air chisel with the blunt drift punch will break the rust bond and walk them right out in no time. That rapid vibration works wonders.


John, where did you find those air hammer attachments - I've been looking for those exact same ones for quite a while?
 
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John Smith8N
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: UPPER LIFT ARM REMOVAL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hobo,NC wrote:
(quoted from post at 04:02:23 01/03/10)
For a regular yer smarter than a mule and yer head ain't haft as big ,,, whatcha got for driving the axle pin out with,,,I had a Ettie bitty lathe but just got a big bad arse lathe and look'n for a project,,, so far have not been able to conger up a billy bob back yard remedy from left over scrap,,, the axle is sit'n rite here beside me and have stumbled over it for a few days...

I am think'n of make'n a driver sorta like the top rocker pin driver...



WARNING Shocked all I know I read on the Internet,,, do it enuff and you can become a guru also,,, not responsible for damages,,, I read it and just pass it along,,, proceed with caution


Same style 2 step hockey puck driver works fine for just about everything. You got the lathe there and some steel you have to make a bunch of special drivers up. It's the law. Front axle pin breaks loose soon as you air hammer the teardrop sideways. Then stick the hockey puck in the back end and have at it. Screw on a handle if you want to beat on it, or use a drill to counterbore the end about 1/2" deep to stick the air hammer bit in the end and walk it out of there. Counterbore will let you blast away with the air hammer and the bit won't slide off. Imagination is the only limit to the other drivers. You need them for front distributor bushings, oil pump bushings, spindle bushings, axle center bushing, steering box seals, etc. If you got good carbide tooling, old rear axles and pto shafts make really good steel stock. Drivers are already in them, you just cut away the extra steel around the driver until it falls out. Buying special tools is fast and easy, but making yer own has job satisfaction. Have fun!






 
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John Smith8N
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: UPPER LIFT ARM REMOVAL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

DollarBill wrote:
(quoted from post at 13:36:25 01/03/10)
John Smith8N wrote:
With the straight drift punch or the hammer head, there's nothing better for radius rod pins, lift arms, rocker pins, and especially those badly rusted bolts holding the centers in original hat rims. You could beat with a hammer all day and never get them out, but the air chisel with the blunt drift punch will break the rust bond and walk them right out in no time. That rapid vibration works wonders.


John, where did you find those air hammer attachments - I've been looking for those exact same ones for quite a while?


You can find cheaper ones at tool stores, but the gold colored ones pictured are from Snap-On. Expensive but worth it if you're going to use them a lot.
 
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Hobo,NC
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: UPPER LIFT ARM REMOVAL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Have the dist tools,,, they were EZ on the small lathe to make,,, it was not ridge enuff to really make chips fly,,, here's a fixture to support the points plate,,, you can even reverse it,,, sure helps from bending the plate are to straighten it if need B....

[img]

[/img]

Thanks

WARNING Shocked all I know I read on the Internet,,, do it enuff and you can become a guru also,,, not responsible for damages,,, I read it and just pass it along,,, proceed with caution
 
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