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FSM timing Q's.


 
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Richard Hare
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:50 am    Post subject: FSM timing Q's. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Morning Gentlemen,

My 1961 FSM is sick and needs help!
Bought it running badly.
Found 5 bent push-rods. (It"d been started using the decompress, combined with ether)
Thought I should check further and wound up putting in new rings, rods and main bearings.
Decoked and did valves.
Injectors serviced.
Replaced bent pushrods.
All back together,........and Still runs badly!
Going by paint, I believe Injection pump has been changed at some point.
(I got a froze-up pump with it, and the one on tractor is painted red, while the old pump is its original silver)
I have looked at timing a few times, and when it is set on 23 degrees BTDC, it won"t start at all,
but when I turn the pump a bit on the adjustment slots, it will run,...
But With Vast Clouds of black smoke, and only firing on 2 or 3 cylinders.

Where do I go from here?
I should add that the engine # is;
1590737.

Pump now fitted is;
SPE-4A 70 S 296.
below is a stamped number,....5448B

Thank you for your time Gentlemen!

Richard.
 
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The Swanndri Guy
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: FSM timing Q's. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Richard, try The Fordson Tractor Pages at "fordsontractorpages.nl" All your questions answers are there.TSG.
 
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Bendee
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 4:04 am    Post subject: Re: FSM timing Q's. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Best to get the manual. paragraphs 109 and 110. when different pumps are used other related changes are made therefore best to study the book. may solve all your problems. note the part about 7.0 mm plungers.
 
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Richard Hare
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 5:07 am    Post subject: Re: FSM timing Q's. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thank you for the replies Gentlemen,
It appears that the Fordson tractor pages Forum us down at present. I have tried to go there for a few days and it says unavailable.

Reading through past posts here, it Appears that my engine and pump should work together.

Yes Bendee, I think I need the manual!
One suggestion I had, was that this pump may be from an engine with the different poump mounting.
(Some pumps lean in to-wards the block, and some are mounted upright, depending on whick mounting block is used) I will try another mounting I have, and see if it brings things closer to where they should be.
Also, I am sure the pump coupler has been changed, but can't figure out the ramifications of this!...........apart from the possibility that the timing mark may have nothing to do with actual timing!
One more question if I may;
How close to coreect timing is it, if a tractor runs badly with smoke and missing? As in, are we out a quarter turn on the pump, or are we within 10 degrees, or what?

Thank you again!!

Richard.
 
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Bendee
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: FSM timing Q's. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Remove the pipe on No 1 at the pump, fuel on, turn the motor over using the nut on crankshaft belt pulley, when fuel spurts from pump, check flywheel degrees [23] and position of valves on No 1.[closed]If they are all in sinc there is another problem somewhere..
 
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Richard Hare
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:39 am    Post subject: Re: FSM timing Q's. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Good morning Bendee,

Thanks for your reply.
Yesterday I did this and it looked right, but it still ran rough and smoky.
Took cover plate off and compared piston position against another FSM I have that runs well, and saw the pump was a bit 'late' on this one, so advanced it a little on the slotted coupler and it fires on all four now! No smoke , but not exactly 'On' so may need some fine tuning.
At present, it idles too fast. How do I slow it down?
It appears the diaphragm in governor is OK, and adjusting the throttle-stop didn't seem to help.
Do I need to adjust the big screw on the end of the governor?
What I don't understand, is that if I remove the pre-cleaner, and cover most of the air-intake with my hand, it idles down just like it should.
What does that tell you?

Thanks for all your help!...and all the best

Richard.
 
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Bendee
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 8:09 pm    Post subject: Re: FSM timing Q's. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Follow the Governor pipes over to the exhaust side, there should be some adjusting screws there.
 
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Richard Hare
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 4:37 am    Post subject: Re: FSM timing Q's. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'd done that Bendee, I adjusted the throttle stop so that the lever wouldn't touch it even, and the engine throttled back to A high idle, then started to pick up speed again. I suppose this happened when the butterfly started opening again in the 'wrong' direction. ("past closed" if you know what I mean!)

I will check system for air-leaks.
Thanks again!

Richard.
 
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Bendee
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: FSM timing Q's. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That is surging, adjust the damping valve on the vacuum governor.Between the two you should get it ok. It must be done with a warm engine. out..
 
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Richard Hare
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 5:10 am    Post subject: Re: FSM timing Q's. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bendee,

No, not surging.
What I meant was that closing the throttle lever slows the engine down to some degree, but as the throttle becomes fully closed, the revs are still too high. Closing the throttle even further causes the engine to pick up speed. it only does this as the throttle is moved, not on its own, (surging)
Sorry if I was unclear!
Have got busy ploughing now, so it may have to wait for a while before I get back to it.
Will keep you posted though!

Thanks again,

Richard.
 
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Mike Farmer
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: FSM timing Q's. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi I'm going to try to put the 'timing' info on here. If it dont work, send me your email address and I'll send the page/s to you direct


 
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Richard Hare
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:43 am    Post subject: Re: FSM timing Q's. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Good morning Mike,

Thanks for taking ther time to attach the timing info!
My problem is that the pump has had a new coupler put on it at some point, and the timing mark on coupler (just a slight nick in one place) doesn't have anything to do with the pump it is now on, so I've had to set the timing by putting engine on 23 deress BTDC on #1 cylinder, and with the pump off the tractor, turn the pump so the pistons in the pump are in the same position as on another FSM I have when it is also set on its timing marks on # 1.
Hope I didn't lose you!
Anyway, it is running now without smoke, but does need a slight tweak, as it is not quite as smooth running as the other tractor.

Got awful busy with spring work, (-5C here this morn!) so will report back when I get a go at it again.

Thanks again, Mike!
...and best wishes,

Richard.
 
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Mike Farmer
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 11:33 am    Post subject: Re: FSM timing Q's. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Glad it worked. My thoughts.
1. the pump you have is the very earliest model with 7mm plungers and it came off an FMD prior to 1425097. probably from about 1955ish (that would have been 29 degrees BTDC)

2.If your engine still had its original pump then it should be 23 degrees BTDC.

3.However if you fit the 7mm pump to the later engines they mostly go for 26 degrees BTDC.
4.So thats the way I would go.
Set your engine to 26 and then sort the pump out as you suggested. Best Etc MTF
 
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Richard Hare
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:39 am    Post subject: Re: FSM timing Q's. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Mike,

I am very sorry I miseed your reply!
This is very useful information,(RE. timing at 26 dgrees and trying it )
I got busy with spring work and have not had a go at the old Fordson for some time.
Playing with the adjustment on the coupler helped, but it still runs rougher than the other old FSM I have, so I will try your reccomendations.

I Will report back when I have done so, but am awfully tied up with farm stuff at present.

Thank you again Mike!!!

Richard.
 
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