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therm relief valve test 4320


 
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Ken11487
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:03 pm    Post subject: therm relief valve test 4320 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I made up a test kit like JDH-43 (hand pump, guage and fittings) to test the thermal relief valve in my 4320. It makes excessive hydraulic noise and a leaking therm relief valve was suspect (thanks to this board).
My JD tm 1029 manual states to install test kit to the pressure valve bore. Is this the lowest of the 5 ports showing? I get oil coming back out the second lowest port and no pressure. Good valve pressure is 2900 to 3000 psi.
The tractor 3pt arms will sink down when parked for a few hours but I used the tractor to cultivate this year and it worked ok just that '20 series whine' is louder than it should be. The tractor has 9000 hrs on it and has been mostly rebuilt and even won a first place at a local show this summer.
Maybe I have the ports mixed up or missed a step.
Any help?
Ken
 
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Ken11487
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: therm relief valve test 4320 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Just for fun here's a pic. Just figured out how.



thanks
Ken
 
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Ken11487
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: therm relief valve test 4320 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Guess a pic of the rockshaft housing would be good too.

The port just above the "T" is where the oil comes out.
Ken
 
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Tx Jim
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: therm relief valve test 4320 Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Nice looking 4320. I can't help on the port ID. There are other reasons for a 3pt to settle. Leaking RS control valves or leaking RS piston seal.
 
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rexhellwig
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: therm relief valve test 4320 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

OK.
The lower bore is the one you want.
The JDH-43 tests only the thermal relief valve, nothing else.

The thermal relief valve is only accessible by removing the rockshaft control valve housing.
The "valve" is a tiny ball held against a soft seat by a spring, shims, and a drilled allen plug.
The thermal relief is tested by removing the pressure poppet, spring, ball, and the rod that opens the valve. You install the JDH-43 test fitting into the pressure valve bore.
The test fitting has two o-ring seals.
These seals straddle the tiny intersecting relief hole in the pressure poppet bore. If there is leakage anywhere other than the thermal relief valve allen plug, your test tool is defective.

You are in the right area to fix your problem, but there are some things I like to do before teardown.

First, with the hitch up and engine running, look through the load control arm adjustment hole. If you can see oil leaking from above, the valve guide is probably bad. When the tractor was new, there was a tiny o-ring and back-up ring inside the pressure guide only. Test the fit of the little operating rod by sliding it through this guide in front of the pressure poppet. There probably won't be any o-ring drag, indicating you need a new guide. Put one in while you have it apart.

Take a good look at the poppet seats in the rockshaft control valve casting. If they aren't perfect and uniform, lap the valves to the housing until they are. Absolute cleanliness is required, so get all the lapping compound out of there.

Don't forget simple stuff like the piston seal or even the valve clearance adjustment. Too tight valve clearance will also make noise.
 
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rexhellwig
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: therm relief valve test 4320 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

P.S.

I've never seen a home-made thermal relief valve tester work yet.
 
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Ken11487
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: therm relief valve test 4320 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks guys, I gave it a good try.
Plan B was to just renew everything that has wear on it, hopefully just rubber.
Rex. I'll follow your steps.
I tore this tractor down to the transmission box, including the sycroniser but skipped the rockshaft control in haste.

If I renew the thermal relief will it still have to be calibrated with shims and the now famous JDH 43?

To lap the valves, would that be to rotate them with compound like engine valves in an old car engine?

I suppose I could take it into my dealer but it's getting a bit "classic" for them. The oldest guy there may know how.

Ken
 
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rexhellwig
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: therm relief valve test 4320 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

"If I renew the thermal relief will it still have to be calibrated with shims and the now famous JDH 43?

There have been some updated parts over the years, IIRC. If the ball and seat you get from Deere look different from what you took out - I would recommend taking the housing in for a test. But if your parts look the same, I might be tempted to reinstall the same shims. The thing was put in to protect $$$ parts from pressure damage. {It is not a surge relief valve}



"To lap the valves, would that be to rotate them with compound like engine valves in an old car engine?

Yes, fabricate yourself a wooden dowel that fits the raise and lower poppets snugly. We keep a set of custom built stones to help fix really bad seats, but this is very rare.

I think the factory acceptable leak down rate was pretty sloppy to limit warranty claims. If the piston bore and the valve seats are good, don't be surprised if you can get the hitch to stay up for several weeks of storage.
 
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rexhellwig
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: therm relief valve test 4320 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I don't want to sound preachy, but if the control valve hasn't been gone through in many years. . The biggest "leak point" is that little AR78483 guide in the bottom "raise" bore. It is very easy to destroy a valve seat when driving in the new guide.
 
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Ken11487
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: therm relief valve test 4320 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Many thanks again Rex. Stuff I need to know.

Seems it may be a good idea to talk with the older techs in town and see if they can do some of the tricky part for me. They are good guys.
 
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Ken11487
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: therm relief valve test 4320 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I will see if dealer has a JDH43.

Flow control valve assy controls rate of raise.

When I took it apart I found one of the shim washers on the flow control valve spring was not on the peg with the others and was bent and lodged in the side of the spring. This would obviously not put the pressure on the spring and may let more oil pass. Maybe this would just result in slower lift rate?
Looks like somebody lost the last shim washer from the adjusting plug on last assembly. I'll just put a new shim on it at reassembly.

Also how do you remove the AR78483 guide? is it accessible when valve body is removed? Dealer even has one in stock!

"Don't forget simple stuff like the piston seal or even the valve clearance adjustment. Too tight valve clearance will also make noise."
What valve clearance?

New seal already on the lifting piston.
 
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Tx Jim
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:13 am    Post subject: Re: therm relief valve test 4320 Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Ken
What valve clearance? The rockshaft pressure & relief valves should have a small amt of clearance which is adjustable iirc by a screw on the side of the valve housing. Adjustment will be outlined in tech manual.
 
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