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4230 topshaft? Tim S


 
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Craig C
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:26 pm    Post subject: 4230 topshaft? Tim S Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Pulled the topshaft on our 4230 today. Seems it likes to see daylight once a year. We've put new shifter forks and cam follower (can't remember the correct term, the thing that moves everything with the detent) So realy no reason to be having trouble again, didn't cut corners. I haven't caught anyone redhanded abusing the trans, but Dad seems to think that it was jerked out of gear under load. The drums are rough and have sharp edges, but aren't worn. Just boggered up. Trans lube is fine, new trans pump, last topshaft. What's your thoughts on cronic topshaft problems, that seem to be related to certain operators, or might a say drivers, that haven't arrived to be an "operator" yet! Is there anything that could be going on up in the console, that could be an excuse for damaging the topshaft? It isn't worn out, but could stand to be tightened up. I'm sure you have seen your share of syncros and quads cowboy operated before.
 
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tim s
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 4230 topshaft? Tim S Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Oh yes I have seen a lot of abusive operators, there are a couple of different kits to repair the top shaft and I think Deere was putting the wrong drive collar in the mix there for a while, the wrong collar would not let the drums set on far enough. I will check my notes on that tomorrow
 
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Craig C
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:43 am    Post subject: Re: 4230 topshaft? Tim S Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Tim, I appreciate it. We're getting too much experience with this thing. It seems to have a zipper on it. I used the cab stand infront of the axle method this time, instead of dad's favorite thing(pulling the cab). seemed to go alot faster that way. We had done it on IH tractors, I never understood, why he always wanted to take a soundguards off. We used to run a shop on the side of our farming operation, and repaired tractors from the area. Mostly deere, and a few IH, but everyone figured out if it wasn't green, dad really didn't want to work on it. Mostly did Waterloo rowcrops 20-50 series, but a few holes, didn't get into some models, because there weren't any around here. Anyway I appreciate your advise, as your have been into to so many more of these things than the rest of us. I suppose that the only good advise you can give is fire the kid running it, but good help is hard to find. I don't think that he aims to break things, its just that he loves older IH tractors and loves the sound of grinding gears. Let me know if you find anything in your notes. Thanks Craig
 
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Tx Jim
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:51 am    Post subject: Re: 4230 topshaft? Tim S Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Craig C wrote:
(reply to post at 07:43:27 10/15/11)


Craig C
I think one reason a lot of technicians R&R SGB instead of rolling trans out from under it is because that's the way it was outlined in JD tech manuals. I know when I was a JD service manager that's the way we did it.

On trans top shaft failure is it possible the traction clutch isn't fully releasing? From my JD experience it's rare for a trans top shaft to require repair that regular.
 
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Tech 7
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:06 am    Post subject: Re: 4230 topshaft? Tim S Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Had a real bad experience with a 2510 top shaft a number of years ago. Had installed a kit from Deere and things would be good for about a dozen shifts. The sound of that drive collar slipping still makes me break out in a cold sweat. I had that shaft apart so many times I could recite thepages from the manual by memory. Finally obtained the drawings of the parts from Deere,measured the shifter fork,checked it with a machinest to back myself up and found that the NEW part was made wrong! That made it 100% once the properly made part was installed. Obviously the 2510 was open station but I could better the book time on disassembly before I was done. Personally have yet to remove the SG body on anything...Once you do it that way I think you wouldn't go back.Today the 7000 series have you pull the powertrain out from under the cab,maybe they caught that idea from past history. BTW TimS that 7520 is waiting for you if you are bored LOL, Bob
 
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tim s
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: 4230 topshaft? Tim S Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I pull the cabs, I made a great cab pulling tool back in the 80"s and it works so good it"s amazing, If I ever figure out how to get pics on here I"ll show you guys, It"s made like a large floor crane 15" tires on the rear(mast end) large casters on the other end, linkage sorta like a 3pt hitch from the mast,,2 pieces of 21/4 X3/8" flat iron that slide into the sound guard frame, a top link that adjusts the leveling, a combine cylinder hooked to an old double acting port-a-power unit it will pick the cab up level(with the parallel linkage)as high as 38", roll it back out of the way and leave it set till your ready to go back on. The upper end of the mast has a tongue clip on it so I can tilt it down and hook it to a pick-up to tow it on the 15" tires. I can set one off in 45 minutes by my self with this, I can have a transmission chunked off "way" faster this way than working under a propped up cab. As for that synchronizer problem, what tech 7 is talking about is what I ran into a few years ago, the collar was not matching the drums, it would only latch on by just a bit,only last a few shifts then that nasty raking sound that sends chills up your spine...
 
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Tx Jim
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: 4230 topshaft? Tim S Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Tim S wrote:
(reply to post at 09:40:46 10/15/11)


Way back when I was a JD dealer service manager the dealer had a tool that fit on a tractor 3pt that slid into the tubing you referred to and lifted the SGB off easily once it was loose.
 
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ukdeereman
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 4230 topshaft? Tim S Reply to specific post Reply with quote

John Deere service manual for a Euro 2140 ( 2750 ) shows a Sound Gard cab lifting tool that is actually a 3 point linkage device , it bolts onto the panel below the rear window and you use another tractor to lift it . And any levelling done by top link and lift rod adjuster . Great idea , and useful where you don't have much height clearance .
 
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tim s
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 4230 topshaft? Tim S Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Deere sent one sorta like that with the 4430 service tools,, we never used ours back then, we had a 60 with an equipment crane on it to lift the cabs,,the one I made after the dealership closed is much better,,I'm going to try to get a pic on here, you guys will like it
 
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Ken11487
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 4230 topshaft? Tim S Reply to specific post Reply with quote

What about lift and hold the cab with an A frame hoist and roll out the rear end? I heard the bolts in the top of the cab were official JD lifting mounts.
 
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