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Looking for clarification!

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Shetland Sheepdog
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:49 am    Post subject: Looking for clarification! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Is it legal to operate a truck and trailer without a CDL when the trailer has a GVWR greater than 10,000 lbs, but the GCWR of truck and trailer is less than 26,000 lbs? No commercial use,or for hire use, just personal use.
 
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mightymolinekid
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for clarification! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You don't need a CDL as long as the GCVWR is less than 26,001 lbs. After that you need a Class A, same as a semi driver does. You wouldn't need the air brake endorsement, though.
 
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MSD
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for clarification! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Good luck getting "clarification" on that topic on this site.
 
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d beatty
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for clarification! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Class A includes the air brakes endorsement. I have driven tractor trailer for over 38 years and never seen a semi without air brakes.
 
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Jim Plunkett
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for clarification! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

As soon as you hook a 10k plus trailer on you need a cdl to be legal
 
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dansuper27
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for clarification! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The 10,000lb limit is confusing. If you hook a 10,000lb or higher rated trailer to a class B CMV then you need a class A CDL to pull it.
If the combined weight rating of the entire vehicle is less than the 26,000lb then in most states you don't need the CDL or have to pull into the port. That isn't true in every state....UTAH is a prime example as well as Nebraska...pickup with trailer is required to pull in no matter the weight.
 
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S2710
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for clarification! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

according to this no.

Bob
poke here

 
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john in la
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for clarification! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You can not get a straight answer for that question. Heck even the DOT officers do not know the answer. I use to have a chart that outlined who needs a CDL but lost it in a hard drive crash.

Read the federal rules and make up your own mind.

The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:

To me this reads states have to follow the federal law and can not change them in any way.

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

To me this says GCWR must be over 26,001 lbs AND the trailer GVWR must be over 10,000 lbs.

In other words a 25,000 lb truck with a 5000 lb trailer would not need a CDL because the trailer is not over 10,000 lbs.
ALSO
A 14,000 lb truck with a 11,000 lb trailer would not need a CDL because the GCWR is not 26,001.

Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

To me this was says the truck must have a GVWR of 26,001 or more.

Class C deals with haz mat and passengers so it is N/A for this question

Someone else brought up air brakes so lets answer that also.

There is no such thing as a Air Brake Endorsement. If you do not take the air brake test or fail the skill test you will be given a Air Brake Restriction. This restriction has no effect on what size truck you drive. It just can not have air brakes. I have seen many trucks (say a 2 ton) that can easily pull a trailer over 10,000 lbs and would have a GCWR over 26,001 lbs that did not have air brakes. Most have vacuum over hydraulic brakes on the truck and electric brakes on the trailer. This combo would require a Class A but could have the air brake restriction.

If a driver either fails the air brake component of the general knowledge test or performs the skills test in a vehicle not equipped with air brakes, the driver is issued an air brake restriction, restricting the driver from operating a CMV equipped with air brakes.
 
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snoopnc
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for clarification! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

....add to this...CLASS A...

When you are sitting on the scales and your TRAILER is 10K (or more)...you need Class A. This is true even if your gross weight (again...while sitting on the scales) is less than 26K. The "kicker" in this scenario is the TRAILER weight while sitting on the scales.

That's how it was "simply" explained to me years ago here in NC while I was sitting on the DOT scales.

Rick
 
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john in la
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for clarification! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Here is the chart I was looking for. It is a page from a model guide the federal government put out to help states write their CDL manuals.

I may be wrong but in my mind this just backs up what I said in my last post.
CDL manual page

 
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scotc
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for clarification! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

But the scales are in the interstate, they only pull you off if you are close or over.
 
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scotc
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for clarification! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Class C deals with Hazmat and passengers? Class C is your basic passenger-car, light-truck license. Hazmat isn't it's own class of license, it's an endorsement. Class C is any vehicle/combination up to 26,000 pounds towing less than 10,000, or bus/van that carries less than 15 passengers.
 
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john in la
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for clarification! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The CDL laws have a class C license. If you haul haz mat or have more than 15 passengers (16 people with the driver) you need a Commercial Driver's Licenses (CDL).
If your truck is not big enough to need a class A or B license but you want to do any of the above you need a class C CDL. You would also need to add the correct endorsements to the license.
Some states use the class C as a regular drivers license. But these states also have a regular class C and a commercial class C.
My state used class D and E for non CDL licenses.

QUOTE..........
The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:
Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.
Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is transporting material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR Part 172 or is transporting any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR Part 73.

If you think I am still wrong than prove me wrong with a link.
CDL rules

 
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S2710
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for clarification! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

On page 5 is the rules in the wisconsin book
page 5

 
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VicS
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for clarification! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for the link and the answer. I had. Always thought if my truck was under 10000 lb. And my trailer, was under 16000 lb I didn't need a CDL. Vic
 
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