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I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle.

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Nofbdybs
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:25 pm    Post subject: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Been in the market for some time for a tow truck.
Pulling a gooseneck, and about 12,000lbs.
Truck would probably do less than 4,000mi in a years time, as it wouldnt be my primary vehicle. Gas mileage really wouldnt be a concern, as 200miles would be a round trip.

Right off the bat, I was not going to spend $50k on a new Duramax, Powerstroke. I just cant justify that kind of $$ on something that will sit so often.

So, I was looking at 24v Cummins trucks and 7.3 Powerstrokes.

Well, you end up with 2 types of trucks.

1. Something with a bajillion miles,
2. Something with low miles, and the owner wants INSANE $$ for it.

neither of which was appealing.


I think I have settled on a GM unit, with the 6.0 or 6.2 gas engine.
Ill save, literally tens of thousands over a diesel unit.
MX will be far cheaper. No extra fuel filters, much less oil when it comes time to change, ect.
The 6.0s and the like, are rock solid engines. Yes, they are fuel hogs, but again, the $$ I save over the diesel will buy a LOT of gas.



Anyone do any regular towing with the GM 3/4-ton tucks and the gas engine?

Thoughts?
 
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IAtractorKid
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You want the 6.0, the 6.2 is a high hp engine for lighter trucks
and not designed for towing. No personal experience with a
6.0 but everyone seems to love them. Not enough motor for
me...7.4l to 8.1l until discontinued then up to a dmax! Fuel
cost is higher but mileage is better empty and towing.
Maintenance is about a wash, more expensive per time but lo
ger time between. Currently on my first dmax but i will never
own another gasser.
 
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M Nut
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:06 am    Post subject: Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have an 8.1 gasser in a 2500 HD Chevrolet crewcab. It will drink gas with the best of 'em, but it has plenty of power. Brother used it yesterday to pull 16,000 lbs on a gooseneck trailer, and said it didn't struggle at all.
As far as mileage, best I have gotten is 12.5 pulling a 16ft boat with 4 guys at 60 mph on good highway. Lowest is 7 mpg pulling 10,000+ lb loads. If I just figure 10 mpg in almost all usage it will be pretty close.
 
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Bspauld
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I pull a 34 ft 5th wheel with my 6. 2500 Chevy with no problem. It doesnt give great milage but i understand the new ones are a lot better
 
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bobs old iron
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

it depends where you find a GOOD used/new unit of any kind, how many miles, engine, greedy owners or dealers, condition of unit. i traded my p/s in on a cummins at a ford dealer that didn"t want dodge"s on his lot,,,,my p/s lariet had 102k, didn"t need to sell/trade, couldn"t pass up the deal, gave 4k different for dodge, was going to cost 2-2.5k to do what i wanted to do to truck..got one year newer, 60k less miles ... couldn"t see paying for new/used when, [like you said],it sits for time on end...
 
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buickanddeere
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The 8.1 "only" makes 340HP which certainly beats the 350 four barrel of the 1980's with 145HP. How did anybody ever manage to pull a trailer then?
However GM could not justify an extra 8.1 production line when the Mark IV LS engines are making 360HP 6.0L with 2500/3500 chassis and 403HP 6.2L in the HD tow package 1500.
With fuel injection and unleaded fuel. Any old gasser that makes 300,000miles has not been a big deal for the past 25 years.
Try 300,000 miles and the bills. To keep a diesel 30,000psi common rail injection, urea injection, particulate filterd, cat convertered, , turbo, variable waste gate, dual battery, and dual alternator rig.
Too bad most diesel purchasers won't admit they choose the diesel so they can re-program in some smoke and another 100-150HP. Or run off road fuel.
 
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S2710
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I totaled out my pickup last summer and I was looking to replace it. Anything at all had over a 100,000 on it and thay wanted anywhere from 12 to 25,000 for them. I picked up a 99 powerstroke for a very good price. It has 250,000 on it but it was well maintained. I had to replace the glow plugs and the diesel shop said that the motor was in very good shape. I am like you and don't put a lot of miles on a year,and fuel is higher then gas but I get a 1/3 better mileage with it then the gas engine. If you can find a 7.3 power stroke with a lot of miles and was well taken care of don't be scared of it. By the way after the price of the truck and putting in 8 new glow plugs I still had less then book price in it. I was lucky I knew the truck and the owner, and his maintenance. Everyone was scared of the miles and he had it for sale for over a year.

Bob
 
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Toms1650
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

We have seven of the old 6.0 gas trucks. Four duramax. And one new F350 gas. I asked about the same question 30,000 trouble free miles ago. I have to run stock for our trucks get checked. Cost wise not even close the 6.0 were a great buy. The duramax look good,pull good but with only 14mpg and high maint cost are not. I switched from the diesel to the big gas Ford and I do not miss a thing. As far as towing the seat of the pants tells me the diesel got more, real world this dosent mean a thing because whatever trailer I pull I get to the same location with the same time with both trucks. All the diesel is good for is wasting money and pushing your chest out claiming you have a diesel. They are not cheaper to run. BTY the 6.0 have 200k on them and have been in the shop less that the 70-120k diesels.
 
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mkirsch
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:21 am    Post subject: Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Despite what people claim there is no shame in owning a gasser.

Those GM 6.0L trucks are as common as raindrops. You should be able to find something decent that's not overpriced if you're patient, keep your eyes open, and are ready to JUMP on a deal when it presents itself.

That's the most important thing... Don't hem and haw, or sleep on it, because the truck will be gone tomorrow.
 
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superseries
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:58 am    Post subject: Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

dont waste money on a diesel. the mileage is worse tnan a 6.0 i have worked as a gm mechanic for 20 years. many expensive problems with a duramax. a few guys i work with have duramaxes and say they get around 14mpg unloaded. i have a 2011 6.0 and get 16mpg. gas costs less than diesel also. not putting you diesel guys down. when you figure in the added cost to buy a diesel you need to drive it 250,000 miles just to break even as compared to a gas. this has been proven over and over
 
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LJD
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There are good rust-free older diesel trucks around if you search around. Whether you want one or not is a different story but they certainly are more fuel efficient then gassers when pulling trailers.

I drove a 2002 2500HD ton Chevy with an 8.1 pulling a gooseneck horse-trailer. Got 8.5 MPG on the highway. The owner told me when he pulled a 14,000 lb. trailer he got 5.5 MPG.

My 1994 Ford with a 7.3 turbo IDI pulls the same horse-trailer and gets 12 MPG. Gets 17 MPG empty.
Paid $3300 for it 12 years ago. Rust free from Colorado and now has 240,000 miles on it.

My 1992 Dodge with the 12 valve 5.9 Cummins pulls the horse-trailer and gets 13.5 MPG. Gets 20 MPG empty. Paid $3500 for it 8 years ago. Rust free from northern Maine from a place that never uses road-salt - just sand. Has 160,000 miles and runs perfect.

My 1983 Suburban with a 6.2 non-turbo diesel pulled a 5500 lb. trailer 2000 miles and got 13.2 MPG. Not great - but it is an old tech diesel and still better then most gassers could do pulling the same weight and wind-resistance. This was a high camper trailer that acted like a big sail.
 
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Dodgeit
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The only thing about the gas model is the GCWR is 6k lighter than the same truck in a diesel. So your 12k trailer puts you over GCWR by about 4k.

This is starting to be an issue with all the states DOT dept. they have started check what the GCWR is of the truck pulling the load.
 
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buickanddeere
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Not easy finding a pre-common rail injection diesel that isn't rusted through around here.
 
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LJD
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Not easy to find in my area either. None of mine came from NY.

I'll also assume that older diesel trucks bring more in Canada then in the USA. I met several people with older diesel trucks in Ontario and Québec. When I told them what I paid for my trucks, I think they figured I was pulling their legs. I was sitting in a transmission shop in London (Ontario) when my E40D trans sprung a leak in my 94 Ford diesel F250. An old guy came in who also had a 94 Ford diesel F250. He bought his around the same time as me with more miles and paid more then twice what I did. Heck the repair parts cost more in Canada. A lot more. The guy in the shop told me there were a few parts I ought to get once I was back in the USA. He said they'd be 30% more if I bought them in Canada. I know at the time, the exchange rate was about even.
 
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730d se
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: I tried,,,, Cant justify a diesel tow vehicle. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

No question that even the "light duty" diesels by the big three have more grunt and better MPG than most gas engines.
However, plow in the added initial cost, added parts cost, added diesel cost over above the high price of gas, and you really need to be hauling often or for a living to make a diesel make sense.
Many times it more of an ego thing, a sound thing, a smoke thing, a bragging rights thing.
All of those truly meaningless "things" come with a hefty price which is always higher than any true value.
 
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