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Does a trailer over 10,000 lbs require a CDL

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john in la
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:41 am    Post subject: Does a trailer over 10,000 lbs require a CDL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

We have talked about this before but it always seems to raise its ugly head every now and then by people giving out the wrong information.

I in no way want to single anyone out for giving bad info; heck I have done so myself in the past; but rather give the correct info.

In a post below two people stated that if the trailer is over 10,000 lbs GVWR you need a class A CDL. This is not true.
The combination of the truck and trailer GCWR must be over 26,001 lbs AND the trailer GVWR must be over 10,000 lbs to require a class A CDL.

So what this means is if I have a truck that has a GCWR less than 26,001 lbs I can pull a trailer with a GVWR of over 10,000 all day and not need a CDL.
One example of this would be a 1/2 pickup pulling a 16 ft trailer with duel 7000 lb axles under it. Even though the trailer has a GVWR of 14,000 lbs there is no way a 1/2 ton pickup is legal weighing over 26,001 lbs so no CDL is required.

So lets look up the rule to back up what I just said.
Federal law.... §383.91(a)(1)
Combination vehicle (Group A)—Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).

Interpretation for 383.91
Question 2: Is a driver of a combination vehicle with a Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) of less than 26,001 pounds required to obtain a CDL even if the trailer Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is more than 10,000 pounds?

Guidance: No, because the Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) is less than 26,001 pounds. The driver would need a CDL if the vehicle is transporting HM requiring the vehicle to be placarded or if it is designed to transport 16 or more persons.

Yes states can make differant rules as long as they follow the federal guidlines for doing it so lets look at them.

Quote from the N.D. CDL handbook....
You must have a commercial drivers license (CDL)
to operate:
A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 pounds.

Combination vehicles weighing more than 26,000
pounds provided the towed unit is over 10,000
pounds.

Quote from the ILL CDL handbook....
A CDL must be obtained by the driver of any of the following vehicles:
Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR)** of 26,001
or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR)* of the vehicle being
towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

As you can see both of these states follow federal rules. In fact I have not seen one state that does not follow federal CDL rules to the letter.

Your comments welcome.

In our next lesson we can talk about how you can have a truck and trailer combination that does have a GCWR over 26,001 lbs and you still do not need a CDL.
 
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johndeere720diesel
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Does a trailer over 10,000 lbs require a CDL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you are referring to me which you are I'm quoting a Minnesota trooper who informed me. All so know someone who got put out of service for not having a cdl. Times are changing it wouldn't hurt to have a maintain a cdl for when some trooper on a power trip doesn't tell you that you have to find someone to drive your truck and load home because you are caught driving a commercial vehicle without a cdl.
 
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john in la
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Does a trailer over 10,000 lbs require a CDL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That is why I am trying to inform you of the rules. If you have an encounter with a power trip trooper you know what to say. If he still will not back down you can always insist on speeking with a supervisor.

Quote from the Mn CDL book....
You must have a commercial driver’s license (CDL) to operate any of the following commercial motor vehicles (CMV) in Minnesota:
A combination of vehicles in which the gross combination weight (GCW) is more than 26,000 pounds and the towed unit has a gross vehicle weight (GVW)* of more than 10,000 pounds.

Besides getting a CDL is not easy for everyone and the cost is high for someone that may use it once every couple of months.
 
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willie in mn
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Does a trailer over 10,000 lbs require a CDL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

John
I agree. Just another item to add to your data bank. From the fine print on back of my dl.
"Class D-valid single unit and combinations up to 26000 lbs gvwr. All recreational & farm veh. (M.S.171.02)" It doesn't specify how that 26k is divided between truck & trailer.
Here in Mn class D is the lowest class. Cancelled my class A when I retired so i could honestly decline several people who wanted me to "make a quick trip to help me out"
Willie
 
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johndeere720diesel
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Does a trailer over 10,000 lbs require a CDL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

yeah i need to get copies of the rules in the truck but havent yet think it would help luckly havent ran into it since then thank god
 
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AG48
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Does a trailer over 10,000 lbs require a CDL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

All I really want to is take my tractor into town to the car wash to get it cleaned up enough to paint.

No big deal - my options are:

1. Rent a steam power washer and do it at home. I don't want to do this because it makes such a mess.

2. Drive the tractor into town, about a hour and a half drive each way and use the 50 cent car wash with hot water.

3. Put tractor on trailer and drive to town and use car wash.

4. Seems like option 2 is my only way out.

Thanks for the input from each of you.
 
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Butch(OH)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:21 am    Post subject: Re: Does a trailer over 10,000 lbs require a CDL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hello all, dont look at this forum much

My 2 cents is the rules are somewhat confusing but people add much to the mess by confusing "legal" and "getting away with it", commercial and non-commercial, in-state and interstate. Another factor to add to the confusion mess is DOT people also are trained to take adnatage of gray areas in the law and fine, hopeing you pay the fine instead of going to court where they will lose. People post "I was fined for X,Y or Z" That doesnt mean that is the law, DOT just plucked their pockets.

In as simple terms as I know how to put it you need to first find out how they determain commerical and non-commercial status in YOUR state, not Tom, Dick or Harry"s states but yours. Then IF you are indeed non-commerical you dont need a CDL to pull the trailer in YOUR STATE period. Here in Ohio you can gross anything legal without a CDL as long as non-commercial private use, your state may differ. Interstate is a differant animal. If your trailer is over 10,000 lbs or your combintation exceeds 26,000 lbs then you always become under federal jurisdiction when you cross state lines and thus you need a CDL. If less than than 10,000 or 26,000 and non-commercial you remain under the laws of your home state no matter where you travel, legal at home, legal anywhere, that"s the law.
I will warn that if a person has a trailer over 10,000 or combo over 26,000 and plans on going the non-commercial route you need to be prepared to be drilled over your status if stopped. As an example here in Ohio and you have an old tractor on board they will ask if they give out trophys or prize money, Yes? then you just lost non-commerical status. Pulling tractor = commerical here. Lots of real H-D looking 9900 Lb trailers around these parts, LOL

Good luck!
 
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buickanddeere
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: Does a trailer over 10,000 lbs require a CDL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Once that trailer weight goes over 10,000lbs you need a class A driver's license. No ifs ands or buts.
 
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JimEvans
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Does a trailer over 10,000 lbs require a CDL Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Wrong again. Only if the combined weight is over 26,000 do you need a class A.
 
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john in la
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Does a trailer over 10,000 lbs require a CDL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

buickanddeere and Butch(OH)

I have given you the text word for word straight from the book covering these laws.
I have given you the law number so you can go look it up for yourself.
I have even given you the federal Interpretation of the law that puts it in everyday terms.

Still you come on here and say what I have said is wrong.
So lets make this easy. Please teach me as I am always willing to learn.
Show me in black and white the law that backs up your statements.
 
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Butch(OH)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Does a trailer over 10,000 lbs require a CDL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sorry I dont mean to come of as being abrasive. Here is a link to a flow chart that makes it easy to see that any trailer over 10,000 lbs puts a person into CDL territory as does any combo with GVWs excedding 26,000 assuming again, that it is a commercial apllication. This was a big deal at my company when the law was changed several years ago as we have 4 pintle trailers over 10,000 GVW.
CDL flow chart

 
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JimEvans
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Does a trailer over 10,000 lbs require a CDL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Read the flow chart again and follow the arrows this time.

The flow chart says:
Is the vehicle a combination vehicle (YES)
Is the GCWR greater than 26,000 (NO)
Is the GCWR of the power unit greater than 26,000 (No)
Is the vehicle transporting hazardous materials (NO)
Is the vehicle designed to transport 16 or more passengers (NO)

CDL NOT REQUIRED.

Notice that if you are under 26,000 GCWR, then the size of the trailer DOESN'T MATTER
 


Last edited by JimEvans on Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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john in la
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Does a trailer over 10,000 lbs require a CDL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Butch
Do not get me wrong. I do not want to sound abrasive; and I surelly do not think that about you. I just want to get this out in the open so everyone can see the facts and learn from it.

From what I am reading you think that even though my truck and trailer have a GCWR less than 26,000 lbs I still need a CDL because my trailer has a GVWR over 10,000 lbs.

So lets use the flow chart you linked....

Is the vehicle a combination
Yes
Is the GCWR more than 26,000 lbs
No
Is the GVWR of the power unit 26,000 lbs
No
Do you tranport hazmat or passengers
No and No
NO CDL REQUIRED

We did not even get to the question about the trailer GVWR because the GCWR is less than 26,000 lbs.

We can talk about some other points you made in your orginal post I do not agree with if you would like.

I will also add......
You do not have to be commercial to need a CDL
CDL applys to everyone.
From the Iowa book you linked. page 9

A commercial driver’s license (CDL) is required for anyone driving any of the following sizes or types of vehicles.

Read that statement word for word and show me where it says commercial trucks only.
 


Last edited by john in la on Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Scott 730
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Does a trailer over 10,000 lbs require a CDL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Simply having a trailer over 10k only requires a CDL when the combo weight is over 26k.

Example.


Trailer with GVW of 12k.

Truck with GVW of 10k.

GCWR = 22k. No CDL needed.

There are other things that come into play with trailers over 10k that are totally unrelated to the CDL issue. Things like having the trailer DOT'd have no bearing on drivers licensing.
 


Last edited by Scott 730 on Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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d beatty
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Does a trailer over 10,000 lbs require a CDL Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you go to (WWW.AITAonline.com) you will find the CDL requirement for every state in the united states. It also has phone numbers for every state so you can call for CDL questions.
 
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