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Time to wake up after 20 year sleep

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ScoutB
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:41 pm    Post subject: Time to wake up after 20 year sleep Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm new to this site and new to old tractors. I just bought a 1940 9N that has been in hibernation in my neighbors garage for the last 20 years. I need some advice on how to coax it back to life after the long sleep. Here is what I know:
    The electrical system is still 6V.
    The carburetor was drained after the last time it ran.
    When it did run last it did not burn oil.
    The left front tire is flat.
    There are small puddles of oil/grease under the gearcase.

There is a lot to work with here. The sheet metal is straight but with a really ugly paint job. No rust at all. The back tires are in good shape. It comes with a 5' back blade and a single bottom plow. I have plans in the short term to put this tractor to use grading my landscape, plowing snow, and maybe even a little bit of trenching for a sprinkler system. The long term plans are to restore it to original condition. I'm a mechanical engineer and machine designer by trade and I love tinkering with this old stuff. Sometimes I even learn (relearn) something along the way. But you guys have already figured this stuff out. Any advice you can give me to get my new baby off to a good start would be greatly appreciated.
 
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ShadetreeRet
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to wake up after 20 year sleep Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well, it seems as though you have a good solid beginning for your project. (As opposed to a "basket case"). Being a mechanical engineer, you already know the importance of instructions. A good service manual is invaluable. Aftermarket is OK, Factory is better. If the carburetor was drained, I hope the fuel tank was drained also. I would check it for rust scales which could get into the system and cause carburetor problems. Any rust should be cleaned out before putting fuel in it. In worst case scenarios, there is a place called The Eastwood Company that sells cleaner and coating for fuel tanks.Is the engine free? Most will advise you to put a little oil or trans fluid into each cylinder and rotate the engine by hand to distribute the oil over the cylinder walls and piston rings. Of course this will make it smoke for a few minutes when it is fired for the first time. The small puddles of oil likely mean that some seals have dried out over the years and may have to be renewed. The straight sheet metal is a definite plus. And the flat front tire should be no major problem, LOL And good luck and keep us posted, maybe some photos from time to time. Lowell H.
 
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ScoutB
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to wake up after 20 year sleep Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks. I haven't tried to see if the motor is free yet but I thought I would pull the plugs and pour in a little ATF before checking. You would think there was probably at least a little scale on the cylinder walls after all this time.
 


Last edited by ScoutB on Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Royse
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to wake up after 20 year sleep Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You came to the right place Scout.
These guys have helped me bring a couple back from the dead.
They have all the answers, and if not, they'll help you find 'em!
I'm not too far from you, just north of Ionia, MI.
I have at least one of each "N" running and working now plus a parts tractor or two around so let me know if you need anything.
Good luck with your project!
 
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oldtanker
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to wake up after 20 year sleep Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You may be suprised. A little fresh gas, new batt and fresh tune up and it could fire right off. I saw an old car pulled out of a pasture after setting 7 years. Fresh gas, cleaned the points and new batt.....fired right up. Look up Bruce's 50 tips and follow them. We like pictures.....hint, hint....and please let us know how it goes.

Rick
 
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old
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to wake up after 20 year sleep Reply to specific post Reply with quote

New to this site but yet you have done a part of the way ATF treatment so tell us the whole story because few would think about doing the ATF thing on there own. That said I would do more then put in a little I would fill the cylinders full to the top and let it sit a week if not more. On the N series you can not do as I do with many and that is fill the cylinders then also pour ATF into the exhaust but that does not work on the fords. It also would not hurt to pout a quart or 2 in the gas tank and open up the sediment bowl valve so as to clean up and oil up the tank and carb so as to help you clean up the carb which maybe a bit pile of rust
 
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ScoutB
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to wake up after 20 year sleep Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks guys. After I pull her out into the daylight I'll get some pictures and post them. The ATF thing is a trick I knew about from working on old cars a long time ago. I've been wrenching since I was a teenager. Now that I'm an old(ish) fart I drive much better cars but I haven't forgotten the old tricks. I haven't found Bruce's 50 tips. Which forum? And, would you guys even bother with a new 6V battery or would you go right for the conversion kit? Is there any hope of bringing the old battery back to life long enough to make sure she runs?
 
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Royse
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to wake up after 20 year sleep Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bruce's 50 tips 50 tips
If you have a good 6 volt, use it. I don't think a 20 year old 6 volt will get you anywhere. MHO
These old six volt systems need enough voltage to both crank the engine and fire the ignition, so any low battery condition will keep them from starting.
Once you get it all ATF'd up and rolling over, you can jump the starter with a 12 volt easy enough, straight to the post, not to the battery.
Starter will crank faster and the 6 volt battery will power the ignition.
Keep in mind that doing so bypasses the neutral safety switch, so make sure it's in neutral!
 
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Bill Rowles
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:45 am    Post subject: Re: Time to wake up after 20 year sleep Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You nmight consider an 8 volt battery. They are commonly available at places that provide parts and fluids for old tractors.....I put one in my model T Ford and it loves the extra 2 volts....no adjustments required as I can determine. You are going to have fun with the old tractor if you are patient and bring hard problems here for help from some real experts.
If I were you I would slowly open the drain plugs at various places under the tractor to get out accumulated water from oil sumps ASAP.
Put a large drain bucket in place incase of trouble getting plug rethreaded!
 
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DollarBill
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:36 am    Post subject: Re: Time to wake up after 20 year sleep Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bill Rowles wrote:
You nmight consider an 8 volt battery.


Bill, I gotta ask - How do you re-charge that 8 volt battery?
 
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OK8N
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:00 am    Post subject: Re: Time to wake up after 20 year sleep Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Oops ... bad link to 50 Tips. Check link on message below.
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: Time to wake up after 20 year sleep Reply to specific post Reply with quote

"You nmight consider an 8 volt battery."

Why would you want to do that?

If you have trouble starting the tractor, clean all the grounds & replace the battery cables. And make sure the battery is good & fully charged. (see tip # 49). An 8v battery can burn up the points & lights & if it's a frontmount distributor, probably the coil as well.

It works like this.......technology & materials being what they were in the 30's, a front coil would melt if it ran on much more than 4 amps for any length of time. (see tip # 38 for an example). In order to get a hot spark at the same time the starter was drawing max current from the battery, a ballast resistor was added in the ignition circuit. What that did was add about .3 ohms of resistance in the circuit, added to the 1.5 ohms of the coil. That got you 3.5 amps or so at start up. As the voltage increased when the engine was running to about 7.5 volts, the resistor heated up, adding more resistance in the circuit. 1.0 ohms hot, plus 1.5 ohms of the coil got you down to 3 amps or so to keep from melting the coil. The same rule (actually, Ohm's Law) applies to a 8v circuit. I= E/R. Current equals voltage divided by resistance. So, 9.4v divided by 2.5 ohms gets you 3.76 amps. The difference of nearly 1 amp means more heat in that front coil. And, if your coil only has 1 ohm of resistance (and a many do) then you're at 4.7 amps.

And, the increased voltage is worse for light bulbs.

Now I'm sure we will hear from folks who are using 8v batteries w/ no problems & some of them may even have an 8v in an 8N. That's not unheard of by any means because some tractors are more easily modified to 8v batteries than others due to coil & v/r considerations….......but why bother? If you tweak the v/r to charge an 8v battery, you need 9.4v. And, tweaking a v/r isn't all that hard as long as you are prepared for the consequences of failure: a boiled battery, burned up v/r or no charge at all.

And, as I recall..........a Model T charging & ignition system is not at all like an 8N Ford!
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:47 am    Post subject: Re: Time to wake up after 20 year sleep Reply to specific post Reply with quote

" The long term plans are to restore it to original condition."

If you want it in original condition, then:


"And, would you guys even bother with a new 6V battery or would you go right for the conversion kit?"

the answer to that question would be no.
50 Tips

 
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ScoutB
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to wake up after 20 year sleep Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Wow, you guys are amazing and apparently some of you don't sleep. I really appreciate all of the advice and the link to the tips. My neighbor is in no big hurry to have this tractor out of his garage and he's OK with me working on it there so the cylinder soak can be done over many weeks if necessary. I'll keep you posted as things happen.
 
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