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Te 20 TO 20 engine swap

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PackardV8
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Te 20 TO 20 engine swap Reply to specific post Reply with quote

What kind of modern day or ez to obtain engine will easily adapt to a TE 20????? I prefer not to go V8 but will if i have to. I prefer not too overtax the trans and axle with too much power or torque. I just want to get this tractor running.

THe Standard engine that is in it is cracked at the bottom crancase web between #3 and #4 cylinders. Anyone had any luck welding these blocks???? -PV8
 
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john[mo]
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Te 20 TO 20 engine swap Reply to specific post Reply with quote

i think the gm/chevy inboard mercruiser 4 cylinder would be a good candidate for a replacement. they come in the 120/140 HP and are watercooled and parts are readily available. plenty of old I/O boats out there with good engines.
 
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wisbaker
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Te 20 TO 20 engine swap Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I've seen one that had a Japanese diesel motor swapped in, saw a cub lowboy that had a VW diesel motor swapped. You might even be able to find a Continental OHV or Ford OHV industrial engine that could be made to work or even one of the Japanese gas water cooled 3 or 4 cylinder industrial engines, many were used in Turf equipment. Ford made an industrial version of the 2.3 OHC Lima engine (think Pinto) as well as the 1.6 Kent engine that would probably be the right size or you could find a engine out of a Triumph TR-2 or 3 as that is remarkably close to a TE engine
 
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wisbaker
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Te 20 TO 20 engine swap Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Another idea you might be able to find something from an old combine or swather that could be made to work. Car/Truck 2.5 GM 4 cylinder ($ cylinder S-10) or a Ford Tempo engine. The advantage with the industrial, turf or re-purposed ag engine is you already have a governor set up on the engine and maybe a hydraulic pump.
 
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Bob (Aust)
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:39 am    Post subject: Re: Te 20 TO 20 engine swap Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If it has a Standard engine it will be a TEA20, not TE20 or TO20.

Why not have the block furnace brazed and machined? Probably cost a lot less than an engine swap and no hassles.
 
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PackardV8
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:46 am    Post subject: Re: Te 20 TO 20 engine swap Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I stand corrected by Bob. IT is a Z120 engine not a Standard. THe tractor plate number is TE 282xx and i can't make out the xx portion of the number. The engine says Z120 on the engine tag which is also difficult to read. Has Delco starter. So therefore it is COntinental engine i assume.

I also have a TO 20 (1951) i've had over 18 years in at least monthy service. But there seems to to be a variety of minor external differences between the TO-20 and this TE-20 engine. That's why i mistook it for a Standard.

Just bought this TE 20 about 3 months ago. IT has aluminum transcase and strut bars from trans to front suspension.
 
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Bob (Aust)
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:56 am    Post subject: Re: Te 20 TO 20 engine swap Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sounds like a TE20! Very Happy

Don't know why Continental engines have cracking problem, their aircraft engine crank cases and cylinders are also prone to cracking but in all fairness, usually due to incorrect engine operation and shock cooling. Stress in the castings I guess.

The Z120 is prone to cracking, but I suspect only when operated incorrectly or allowed to overheat or shock cool. I don't speak from experience as there are no TO20/30 tractors in Australia.

I still think having the block furnace brazed, stress relieved, line bored and machined will probably cost a lot less than an engine swap and you should have no further cracking problems after the block has been stress relieved.

Bob in Oz
'53 TEA20
 
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PackardV8
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:02 am    Post subject: Re: Te 20 TO 20 engine swap Reply to specific post Reply with quote

AS for the oven brazing i'm not sure there is anyplace here in the middle Tennessee area that does that. IIRC it was very expensive to have done even 25 years ago.

At this point i'm not sure if it can just be welded due to precision sealing surface at bottom of sleeves. Complete disassembly and reassembly of the engine is not a problem as long as i get the cracked fixed.

THe Service Manual (factory) and others i have talked to say that cracking at the block webs is fairly common. I'm wondering what causes it.

As for an engine swap to the 4cyl Chev or Ford engines recommended by others i'm wondering if an adapter plate is needed and who sells them.

I'm not too worried about a lack of governor. I have a real nice TO 20 i use for applications where governor is needed. But this TE 20 i plan to use as a spare tractor just for towing things around the ranch here so i can live without a governor on this TE 20.

Altho i do prefer to keep the original engine, rite now i'm looking for the fastest cheapest and easiest way out to get this tractor back in service.
 
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Tony in Mass.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:59 am    Post subject: Re: Te 20 TO 20 engine swap Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I've seen these modern engine conversions before, I have never been impressed, unless you are a machinist that can mill bell housing adapter plates, redo the pivit basket, and make up for steering distances. There has to be a Continental or Standard gas somewhere near you, IF you can't fix the one you have.
Seems the z120's had better luck becuase they have more meat between the cylinders that was bored out in the z129's. No mater what broke it, best to try having it fixed or replaced with the same.
 
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wisbaker
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Te 20 TO 20 engine swap Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The three factors that guide a repair are TIME, PRICE and QUALITY. You can have any TWO. If you don't have the ability to or get fabricating and machining done adapting another engine won't be cheap, at that point getting a Continental engine to put back in there would be most expedient. If money is an issue than you'll trade time for money while you scrounge Continental parts. Might see if an engine from a later MF might work if you can find a trashed smaller MF (35, 135, 230) but for that one you might need to get other parts (bellhousing, steering parts). Again industrial engines on pumps, compressors and generators might be a source especially if you can find one with a continental engine on it. There are also small Detroit Diesel engines (2-53 and 2-71) but your'e back to adapting. The Detroit option would leave your Ferguson with the same engine as a 435 John Deere
 
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samn40
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Te 20 TO 20 engine swap Reply to specific post Reply with quote

How's this for power when you need it? a P6 perkins
2nd pic ..a industrial ad3 152 perkins(MF135) fitted using back plates from a proper Perkins P3 conversion package.
3rd pic..a proper late Perkins P3 engine kit (Fordson Dexta type)
Sam



 
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redtractor
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Te 20 TO 20 engine swap Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hot tank block. Clean all surfaces including liner bores and install sleeves as instructed then drill holes on either side of block favoring the lower part of the liners between the liners on the middle liners tape up all holes and use gas tank sealer as directed let cure then assemble engine. Got 2 z134s like this ones going on 8 years with no problems. Just hope I never have take it apart!
 
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David Shea
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Te 20 TO 20 engine swap Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a TE 20 that we will be parting out soon. The prior owner said the tractor ran good.
David Shea
802-782-2409
 
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PackardV8
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Te 20 TO 20 engine swap Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Many thanks Samn40 for the engine conversion pics. I'm just wondering how well the trans and axle hold up to all of that extra power and torque?????
 
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PackardV8
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Te 20 TO 20 engine swap Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Quote from RedTractor:
"... drill holes on either side of block favoring the lower part of the liners between the liners ..."

ok. Sounds good and i'll try it. But it is not clear to me where to drill the holes. Are they drilled from the outside of the block???? And what purpose do the drilled holes allow for???
 
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