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GB in MT, question for ya

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Inno
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: GB in MT, question for ya Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I posted this on the tractor talk board and was told to look you up over here.
Taking apart the Marvel Schebler carburetor this evening from my MF TO-35 and the air screw was so tight that it snapped off when I tried to take it out.
I tried with easy outs and it wouldn't budge. I drilled it out a little further and tried to knock the sides in and pull the rest out but I don't want to go too far for fear I might strip the threads.
It is currently soaking in carb cleaner which I'm hoping might loosen things up.
Any other tricks?
 
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Dell (WA)
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: GB in MT, question for ya Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Inno........ALWAYS use hollow-ground "gunsmithing screwdrivers". Make one outta enny screwdriver by grinding the wedge against the side of yer electric grinder. Simple, eh?

2nd, BOIL yer cast iron carb in HOT-WATER (seriously) Cast iron has different expansion ratio than BRASS jets. ........HTH, Dell
 
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Inno
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:31 pm    Post subject: Re: GB in MT, question for ya Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Guess I should have come here first....... Crying or Very sad
 
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GB in MT.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: GB in MT, question for ya Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Inno wrote:
(quoted from post at 21:31:26 09/18/12) Guess I should have come here first....... Crying or Very sad

Inno;
You still on here???? Kinda late with this, but couldn't sleep and turned on the computer......that was my First mistake.

Need to know a little more about the "Air Screw"?????? (Idle/air adjusting screw?????) I'm confused on what part ya broke!!!!! Confused
I am gonna assume...(Second mistake), that you are talking about one of the Brass Jets???????? inside the carb????? If so....then which one????? Smile ....Makes a dif., ya know!!!

Can't help ya, unless ya 'splain' yerself better.

Gary (GB in MT)

 
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rustyfarmall
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:26 am    Post subject: Re: GB in MT, question for ya Reply to specific post Reply with quote


It's amazing what a little heat from an oxy/acetylene torch will do for those stuck screws and jets. Even the heat from a small propane torch can prevent a lot of frustration.

When I rebuild any carburetor, I apply only a reasonable amount of pressure with a screw driver, and if that screw doesn't let loose, I subject it to a little heat, let it cool, and then usually it will come out just like expected.

It comes with experience, 'cause I've broken a few myself.
 
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Inno
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:15 am    Post subject: Re: GB in MT, question for ya Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well........probably best if I snap a picture and post it this evening. Not sure the exact model of MS carb it is but I'll try to explain it as best I can. Carb mounted on right side of engine, just forward of the throttle linkage (where throttle the shaft passes through the throat of the carb) this brass screw/jet/needle goes in at an angle pointing to the left rear of the tractor.

I applied what I "assumed" to be a reasonable amount of force........then probably a little more for good measure and snap! So in my infinite wisdom, and because this has worked for me many times in the past on non-brass screws, bolts etc. I got my easy outs and proceeded to drill. Well the smallest easy out I had just stripped out the brass so I proceeded to the next size which gripped well but I still couldn't get it to budge. So I drilled it out a little more and tried to knock the sides of the screw in but in hindsight that was probably a very bad thing to do. After I looked at the new one that comes with the rebuild kit I realized how far into the carb it actually goes. So now I'm not too sure just what to do. I don't think I have damaged the threads (yet) on the carb body but I still have to find some way to remove the remainder of the screw/jet/needle.

I have it soaking in a can of carb cleaner right now maybe that will help. Funny thing is, everything else came out just fine, which is normally not how it goes with other old carbs I've worked on so I just assumed this screw would be no different.
 
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Plane Bart
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: GB in MT, question for ya Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Inno wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:15:04 09/19/12) Well........probably best if I snap a picture and post it this evening. Not sure the exact model of MS carb it is but I'll try to explain it as best I can. Carb mounted on right side of engine, just forward of the throttle linkage (where throttle the shaft passes through the throat of the carb) this brass screw/jet/needle goes in at an angle pointing to the left rear of the tractor.

I applied what I "assumed" to be a reasonable amount of force........then probably a little more for good measure and snap! So in my infinite wisdom, and because this has worked for me many times in the past on non-brass screws, bolts etc. I got my easy outs and proceeded to drill. Well the smallest easy out I had just stripped out the brass so I proceeded to the next size which gripped well but I still couldn't get it to budge. So I drilled it out a little more and tried to knock the sides of the screw in but in hindsight that was probably a very bad thing to do. After I looked at the new one that comes with the rebuild kit I realized how far into the carb it actually goes. So now I'm not too sure just what to do. I don't think I have damaged the threads (yet) on the carb body but I still have to find some way to remove the remainder of the screw/jet/needle.

I have it soaking in a can of carb cleaner right now maybe that will help. Funny thing is, everything else came out just fine, which is normally not how it goes with other old carbs I've worked on so I just assumed this screw would be no different.


I have had good luck removing broken brass fittings by tapping the end of a file into the broken fitting also try heating it first as earlier stated.
 
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rustyfarmall
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: GB in MT, question for ya Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I have found the best way to use an EZ out is to throw it on the scrap iron pile and send it to China.
 
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Inno
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: GB in MT, question for ya Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have used mine successfully quite a few times. They have got me out of a bind before.
 
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GB in MT.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: GB in MT, question for ya Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Inno wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:15:04 09/19/12) Well........probably best if I snap a picture and post it this evening. Not sure the exact model of MS carb it is but I'll try to explain it as best I can. Carb mounted on right side of engine, just forward of the throttle linkage (where throttle the shaft passes through the throat of the carb) this brass screw/jet/needle goes in at an angle pointing to the left rear of the tractor.

I applied what I "assumed" to be a reasonable amount of force........then probably a little more for good measure and snap! So in my infinite wisdom, and because this has worked for me many times in the past on non-brass screws, bolts etc. I got my easy outs and proceeded to drill. Well the smallest easy out I had just stripped out the brass so I proceeded to the next size which gripped well but I still couldn't get it to budge. So I drilled it out a little more and tried to knock the sides of the screw in but in hindsight that was probably a very bad thing to do. After I looked at the new one that comes with the rebuild kit I realized how far into the carb it actually goes. So now I'm not too sure just what to do. I don't think I have damaged the threads (yet) on the carb body but I still have to find some way to remove the remainder of the screw/jet/needle.

I have it soaking in a can of carb cleaner right now maybe that will help. Funny thing is, everything else came out just fine, which is normally not how it goes with other old carbs I've worked on so I just assumed this screw would be no different.

Inno;
SO....now that I know for sure what is broken....I'll tell you to keep chuging away at it with the drills, and being very careful not to mess up the threds...

That is the Idle/air/fuel mixture screw
sizing...10-32UNF
Length of the threds 1/2in
length of the tip ....(pointy end) 1/2in

I understand that you like to use an esy-out, BUT JMHO, this job is going to be a drill, and pick job.

From what you have said, I'm thinking that you still have at least 3/4in. of the screw, left inside the hole!!!??
Start with a 9/64 drill to make a pilot hole(Centering), then step up to 5/32,...then up to the max size of 11/64!!!!!! When using the 11/64 in the hole, make sure NOT to wobble the bit in any way......(If the threds are stripped out,....you will never get the tap to make the right size threds!!)
After removing the screw/debrie from the hole, using a 10-32 unf tap to replentish the threds.

If all goes well....then wash out the hole/threds, with a lite oil and compessed air.......then...hand install the new screw....then wash out the hole,again, and if ya did it right.....ya just saved the carb......IF NOT....then the carb throttle body,
is pretty much useless, with 0ut an Idle air screw!!!!!!
Left handed drill bits are avail. form Harbor Frieght, and work lots better than righthanded drill bits, for this kind of work........(Just a thought)

Hope all goes well for you!!! NEED MORE HELP.....Post back!!!

Gary Wink

 
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Inno
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:49 am    Post subject: Re: GB in MT, question for ya Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks Gary, I'll keep gently working away at it.
So in the event that I do damage the throttle body beyond repair, what are the odds of finding a replacement?
 
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GB in MT.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:42 am    Post subject: Re: GB in MT, question for ya Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Inno wrote:
(quoted from post at 07:49:36 09/20/12) Thanks Gary, I'll keep gently working away at it.
So in the event that I do damage the throttle body beyond repair, what are the odds of finding a replacement?


Inno;
If what you say happens......I would suggest you go to the "Ferguson Forum", here on YT, and post for the same TSX#'d thottle body....OR maybe you would find a whole carb, that could be rebuilt.
I think the TSX 605 or TSX 683, is the OEM Marvel/Schebler carb that is/was used on the TO-35 Ferggie'!!
YT has a listing for replacement/new carbs, BUT I would say that the cost is a little more than I would pay......OVER, $300.00 NEW!!!!!!!! Shocked

Just be super careful with the one you are working on, and you should be able to save that one!!!! Just will take ya some time!!!

Gary Smile

 
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Inno
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:25 am    Post subject: Re: GB in MT, question for ya Reply to specific post Reply with quote

GB in MT. wrote:
(quoted from post at 08:42:40 09/20/12)
Inno wrote:
(quoted from post at 07:49:36 09/20/12) Thanks Gary, I'll keep gently working away at it.
So in the event that I do damage the throttle body beyond repair, what are the odds of finding a replacement?


Inno;
If what you say happens......I would suggest you go to the "Ferguson Forum", here on YT, and post for the same TSX#'d thottle body....OR maybe you would find a whole carb, that could be rebuilt.
I think the TSX 605 or TSX 683, is the OEM Marvel/Schebler carb that is/was used on the TO-35 Ferggie'!!
YT has a listing for replacement/new carbs, BUT I would say that the cost is a little more than I would pay......OVER, $300.00 NEW!!!!!!!! Shocked

Just be super careful with the one you are working on, and you should be able to save that one!!!! Just will take ya some time!!!

Gary Smile


I am optimistic. Just bought a small set of taps (been needing some for awhile) so I'm going to go give it a try.
Thanks for your help!
 
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Inno
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: GB in MT, question for ya Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I got it out. It seems I didn't drill exactly straight but it wasn't bad enough to cause damage. I got it all back together and it is working!
I put it on my 202 instead of back on the 35 because I took the carb off the 202 last weekend to get the 35 home. The 202 will be used more so I figured I'd give it the freshly rebuilt carb. Got it adjusted, it idles nicely and high speed is good but it has a slight "stutter" when the governor kicks in when using the backhoe or anything which puts it under sudden load which it didn't have with the other carb.


 


Last edited by Inno on Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GB in MT.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: GB in MT, question for ya Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Inno;
Good on ya!!!!
Glad you got it fixed and sounds like it is running good. Now ya won't need to worry about looking for a replacement carb.
The slight stutter, may just be that your Gov. needs a little tweeking!!! No big deal I wouldn't think!!!!

Saved the carb., and saved yourself a lot of $$'s!!! Could not believe what that carb costs to replace!!!!

Good work!!

Gary Cool

 
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