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TO20 TE20 Cracked block Epidemic STUDY topic.


 
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PackardV8
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:57 am    Post subject: TO20 TE20 Cracked block Epidemic STUDY topic. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Seems to me that there has been frequent posts about cracked blocks and heads on the Z120 engines. Is this something peculiar to the Z120 and NOT other engines such as the 8N and 9N fords??????

What is usualy the cause of the blocks to crack???? No antifreeze or overheating or what??? Anyone have specific causesfor the cracks based on experience???

MY TO20 of 18 years and at least 4 hour monthly usage has never cracked.
 
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cphillips
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: TO20 TE20 Cracked block Epidemic STUDY topic. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

when I bought my to-20 the block was cracked between each cylinder and a large external chunk missing, I know for a fact it did not have anti-freeze in it only water. I replaced with a salvage yard block and rebuilt internals and it has been great and trust me I push it to the limit, I do not think overheating would ever crack in-between the cylinders like mine was, I would think the head would go first with the heat. Here is a video of me attempting to pull a very large sled (for the ferguson) with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8s_4esjhvY&feature=plcp
 
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Jason S.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: TO20 TE20 Cracked block Epidemic STUDY topic. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

In my opinion I don"t believe all of it is due to overheating or freezing and cracking. I have no doubt that those circumstances cause a lot of it but there are many cases of the tractors being well taken care of and the blocks still crack. I believe it"s due to two things. Casting back then is not what it is today. I have seen several older cast pieces that have air pockets and such in them but mostly I believe it is due to stress. I used to build a lot of high performance car engines. If you are using stock rods or cranks it"s a good idea to remove the casting lines and polish them or they develop stress risers and crack. If you look at the z120 blocks they crack right along the casting seams and I think that being subjected to lots of hard work and lots of heating and cooling cycles causes a lot of it..and of course the poorer casting processes back then.
 
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Jerry/MT
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: TO20 TE20 Cracked block Epidemic STUDY topic. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There are several reasons for the Continentals to have cracking problems. These engines were designed and produced in the post WWII era wen the Allies bombed most of the world"s industrial capacity to dust. There was great pent up demand for manufactured goods in the post war years also. The combination meant that factories were running overtime to produce machinery for domestic use and to support the Marshal Plan for a recovering Europe. Most likely quality control suffered and the casting technoloy of the time was not nearly as good as it is today. Add to that a design that did not take into account this impact of the casting technology and the QC that didn"t look very hard for these things and it"s no wonder there were a lot of marginal blocks produced and shipped.
The result is that these Continental engines are prone to cracking.The likely failure modes were just out and out weak webs between the cylinders in the early failures and fatigue failures in the same section of the older blocks.
The original Z129 on our TO-30 had the tension rod fix on it and it worked well with the fix but was just plum wore out when I replaced it wth a remanufactured block that had a furnace braze repair on it.
The N series blocks were based on the Model T engine and they were well below the state of the art in engine technology even in the "40"s. But they were a proven, robust, thirty year old design that could be made in vast numbers. They were ~ 20% poorer in output at the same displacement than the Continental Z120 mainly due to the superior volumetric efficieny of the Z120"s overhead valve design.

Those are some of my opinions regarding your question.
 
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PackardV8
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: TO20 TE20 Cracked block Epidemic STUDY topic. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Quote:
The N series blocks were based on the Model T engine and


Model T or did u mean to say model A Ford engine???? I really don't know. I've never had a 8N or 9N.
 
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samn40
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Re: TO20 TE20 Cracked block Epidemic STUDY topic. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

We had a real big problem with Ford 1000 series tractor engines cracking and mixing oil and water. especially the 7600 and the 10 series were notorious for it(7610) It was so bad that Ford dealers all had a truck built just to carry out short motors or complete engines!. Part of the reason was faulty castings but ford decided that the biggest problem was static electricity. They noticed the problem got real bad when the tractors went to using alternators instead of the old dynamo system. Don't ask me why but the cure was a filter.... and an additive in the coolant. Also the new blocks were ribbed on the outside, known locally as criss-cross blocks.
Maybe static did put stress loadings on the Continental block also?
Sam
 
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JPFL
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:47 am    Post subject: Re: TO20 TE20 Cracked block Epidemic STUDY topic. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a Z120 block, head, crankshaft for sale. Other Z120 & Z130 engine parts. Thanks Jim in FL --No-Advertising-in-Forums
 
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Jerry/MT
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: TO20 TE20 Cracked block Epidemic STUDY topic. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Model T. That was even before my time but I have been told that the basic block came off a model T.
My point is that the design had been around for a long time and it was no longer state of the art engine design BUT was rugged and could easily be produced.
 
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John(UK)
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: TO20 TE20 Cracked block Epidemic STUDY topic. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You should read Jerry's reply. He has had some experience with these cracked blocks and having them repaired and he will be able to point out any problems that could arise and why...John(UK)
 
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PackardV8
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: TO20 TE20 Cracked block Epidemic STUDY topic. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Will a model T or model A Ford engine swap rite into a Te20 Ferguson whith little or no major modification??????? I'm not worried about the lackof a governor. Front axle mounting an issue with the Model T or Model A FOrd engines????
 
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trac
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:38 pm    Post subject: Re: TO20 TE20 Cracked block Epidemic STUDY topic. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I don't think it's worth the effort although a year of week ends you can make any thing fit no it won't just drop in. I know the TO30's were very thin walled where the selves drop in so with weak antifreeze they will easily crack
 
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cdmn
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: TO20 TE20 Cracked block Epidemic STUDY topic. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The 9N engine was based on one half of a Mercury V8. When the first 1932 V8s came out about half of the blocks were scrapped for cracks. In WWII Ford built some of the Jeeps. Their blocks cracked. Willys blocks did not. It has to do with how the blocks are treated before they are machined. Slow cooling, long curing, perhaps. More expensive engines had a handful of Nickle put into the ladel before pouring. This added toughness. Hudson engines had bores very close to each other, but I'm not aware of cracking.
I've worked on the small Case and Allis Chalmers engines. More often than not, they are cracked. Frost is suspected, since the radiator drains don't empty the blocks. The cracks didn't seem to ruin the engines however.
 
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