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What's a Blown Head Gasket?

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equeen
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:53 am    Post subject: What's a Blown Head Gasket? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Years ago had oil in radiator of an 8N. Took tractor to mechanic who repaired - said cause was a blown head gasket.

Have a '50 8N with oil in radiator and low compression on cyls 2 & 3. Decided to tinker myself.

Photo (I hope) shows gasket still on head. Bits left on block. I don't see anything "blown".

What am I missing?

If gasket wasn't "blown", then what are other possibilities for oil in water?

Thanks.

 
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old
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: What's a Blown Head Gasket? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well if you had posted a picture of the gasket that might have helps. Can not see any thing wrong with the head or any leaks but you can not always see a problem like that on the head. Do make sure the head is flat and not warped. Low compression on 2 and 3 does sound like a blown head gasket and yes they can blow and you not see much unless your 100% sure of what your looking for
 
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souNdguy
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: What's a Blown Head Gasket? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

2 could be dumping in 1 and 3 in 4.. or both into water jacket.

combustion byproducts blowing into water jacket can give it an oily sheen.

remember.. comp pressure inthe cyl is going to be big double digits... water pressure is gonna be 4 psi.. and oil pressure somewher eunder 45 psi..e tc..

if it is truley oil in water.. cracked block..
 
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thommoos
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: What's a Blown Head Gasket? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Crank in the head or warped, need to get it magnafluxed and checked.
 
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equeen
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: What's a Blown Head Gasket? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The gasket is right there on the head in the posted photo, just as it was removed from the block.

Will clean up the gasket and post a photo of it alone.

Thanks.
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: What's a Blown Head Gasket? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

equeen wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:53:40 09/25/12) Years ago had oil in radiator of an 8N. Took tractor to mechanic who repaired - said cause was a blown head gasket.

Have a '50 8N with oil in radiator and low compression on cyls 2 & 3. Decided to tinker myself.

Photo (I hope) shows gasket still on head. Bits left on block. I don't see anything "blown".

What am I missing?

If gasket wasn't "blown", then what are other possibilities for oil in water?

Thanks.


This is only spot that I see that might look suspicious. Need to look at other side of gasket, too. Don't see any evidence of steam cleaning in combustion chamber, which suggest to me that you have no water to cylinder leak.....were you needing to add coolant often? No? Then probably no leak. I will never understand why people just "have to" jerk an engine apart BEFORE diagnostics! Just waste of time/money & destroys evidence that might help diagnose the problem, if one exists. There is no direct path for oil to be pushed into the water jacket in this engine.......no oil passages in head or head to block interface/gasket. IF, if you had a compromised head gasket connecting cylinder to water jacket, then at best some combustion products could find their way into the radiator, but that would NOT be a lot of oil & if observant, one would see the bubbles in the radiator. IF you had a cracked block between water jacket & crankcase, that would yield water in oil pan, not oil in radiator. What you probably HAD, was a perfectly well operating engine, with an oil-sheen in radiator resulting from lubricants in coolant.......probably only thousandths of an inch thick, on top of water/anti-freeze mix.....nothing to be concerned about. If you are good & lucky, I will be as good as it WAS before when you put it all back together.
 


Last edited by JMOR on Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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teddy52food
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: What's a Blown Head Gasket? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That spot goes to a head bolt, not the water jacket. Low compression could be valves too.
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: What's a Blown Head Gasket? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

teddy52food wrote:
(quoted from post at 13:16:28 09/25/12) That spot goes to a head bolt, not the water jacket. Low compression could be valves too.
.......nah! Coolant hole. But even if it were a bolt hole, the bolt hole goes into water jacket, too.
 


Last edited by JMOR on Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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equeen
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: What's a Blown Head Gasket? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Appreciate all comments.

Soundguy, I didn't run the tractor except for a spin around the man's yard. However, I saw the oil saturated around the radiator fill neck "cushion material" and the oil in radiator. After removing the head, I saw the oil in the water jacket of the head and engine. Nope, not just a sheen.

May be a mistake since probable block problem; but head is at engine machine shop and quick check suggests will need to shave about 0.015 off head around cyl 1 & 4 outside.

I am going to have the block magnafluxed, or whatever. Cost is reasonable for me to at least know.

I'm guessing that it would depend upon location and size of crack, if it exists. But, any welding options for a block cracked in this probable manner. (No visible external cracks or cracks at top of block.)

Thanks.
 
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equeen
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: What's a Blown Head Gasket? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Photo of top of engine. No visible problem - to my eye.

How about the eyes of y'all?

 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: What's a Blown Head Gasket? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Unless you have done an awful lot of cleaning, someone has been it there very recently!
I don't think you have/had a problem. Sorry.
 
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souNdguy
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: What's a Blown Head Gasket? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

if it's at the machine shop and they are crack checking it.. let them advise you.

SOME cracks can be repaired.
 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: What's a Blown Head Gasket? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Laying as it was I could not see what was what and of course even a picture is hard to see and know for sure.
 
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equeen
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: What's a Blown Head Gasket? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Head was warped. Being checked for cracks and machined if okay.

I just don't believe that the gasket was "blown".

Some folks have questioned if oil was just a film on water. I now think that it may have been and I have no clue as to when the coolant was last changed. Have flushed the block with hot water and approx tablespoon of oil came out. Rest was water. However, more flushing to do - and tractor is not parked in such a way that all liquid comes out.

Tomorrow's a new day. Hope to re-install head and radiator and learn some more.

 
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ASEguy
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:26 am    Post subject: Re: What's a Blown Head Gasket? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I don't see anything conclusive. Low compression on cylinders 2 and 3 could be a head, head gasket or block issue, but it's usually interpreted through the compression readings and not "low compression on cylinders 2 and 3". Compression testing is usually done dry cranking then wet cranking, and if that's not conclusive, running compression on the affected cylinder(s). Posting the numbers for all cylinders would be a big help. Also, with any gasket failure BOTH sealing surfaces must be suspect until proven acceptable. It doesn't make sense to assume one surface is acceptable and one may be defective. I have found low spots on blocks with a straightedge and cracks with dye penetrant test kits which were not visible to the naked eye. Hope this helps. Gerard
 
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