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TO35 Starter Problem


 
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Bob Mc
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Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:27 pm    Post subject: TO35 Starter Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well guys you have convinced me to rethink parting out my newly acquired '55 TO35, so this morning I backed it into the shop to troubleshoot the generator charging problem and lift problem. Now there seems to be a dead short in the starter.

I used the TO35 12 volt generator wiring diagram from FENA. org to check wiring. It is a neg. gnd. 12volt system, the negative battery cable is grounded at the starter mounting bolt. I cleaned all the connections and when I got to the voltage regulator the Load terminal wasn't even connected. So I wired everything according to the schematic. I eliminated all the wiring for the lights and the light switch since there are no lights on the tractor. When I went to start it the solenoid clicked, nothing turned and the battery cables got warm. I thought something must be shorted so I rechecked everything. It was wired as per the schematic. I then disconnected the starter cable at the starter and using a battery cable jumpered straight from the battery positive to the starter post. The sparks flew and the starter did not turn. Shouldn't the starter turn when jumped from the battery like that? I can rock the tractor in gear and the engine turns so it is not locked up. It acts like a dead short in the starter motor, but worked just fine when I started it to bring it into the shop. The only thing I did to the starter during my troubleshooting was remove the cable to clean the contact and post. I don't know if the generator and voltage regulator are even any good, but I wouldn't think they could cause this problem. I'm not an electrician, but I can read a electrical schematic and I'm stumped. Does anyone have an idea? Thanks for any help you can offer.

Bob Mc
 
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Charles in Aus.
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Location: Victoria , Australia

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: TO35 Starter Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bob , you might be the Gremlin after all. As you said ''all I did was remove the cable and clean the post '' . This is probably where it all went wrong as it did to me once , by removing the cable you risk turning the bolt in the body , this generally has a wire soldered to it , if this has turned then a short to ground is a real possibility.
 
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2tractors
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:33 am    Post subject: Re: TO35 Starter Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I broke the same connector on mine by not holding the lower 9/16 nut while tightening the upper.
 
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Bob Mc
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: TO35 Starter Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have not taken a starter apart in years. Is that connection repairable in the shop or is the starter pretty well shot? I'm getting ready to go down to shop and pull the starter off. Thanks for the help guys I appreciate it.

Bob Mc
 
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Charles in Aus.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: TO35 Starter Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It is not a big deal Bob, if you can pull the starter apart then you can repair the joint easily. It is also a good time to check the brushes and commutator , as well as giving it a good blow out with compressed air.
 
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Bob Mc
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: TO35 Starter Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I found the problem. After I removed the starter and could turn the armature by hand I applied power to the starter and it ran. I could get it to run then it would stop, sometimes it just sparked and drew a lot of current, then it would run. I noticed sparking coming from the commutator and brushes. The brushes are worn to the point the brush retaining screw heads are rubbing on the commutator. The commutator is worn so bad the segments are even with the mica insulators. I was going to replace the brushes until I saw how bad the commutator was worn. I guess I'll just get another starter. This was the stock 6 volt starter, am I correct in assuming the 6 volt replacement starter from YT will still work with my 12 volt system? Thanks for the replies and help.

Bob Mc
 
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Fergienewbee
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: TO35 Starter Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bob;

I had a similar problem with mine on a T0-30. Is there a re-build shop near by? Probably be a lot cheaper to get it rebuilt. Mine was.

Larry
 
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Charles in Aus.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: TO35 Starter Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bob, on a starter the segments are supposed to be even , not under cut like with a generator or dynamo. So if the commutator is not really badly scored or grooved then a simple clean up with emery paper to create a smooth surface for new brushes should be enough .
 
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Bob Mc
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: TO35 Starter Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The commutator is pretty smooth. but it does need to be cleaned up. I will see if the brushes are available. I know there isn't a shop that rebuilds generators or starters where I live, I'll check the Lawton or OKC area if I can't get brushes. Thanks.

Bob Mc
 
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John(UK)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:07 am    Post subject: Re: TO35 Starter Problem Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You shouldn't use a 6 volt starter on a 12 volt system and expect it not to give problems or last a long time. We do use a 6v Starter on a TO20&30 but that is only because there isn't an alternative.If it has a 6 volt starter but it has a 12 volt battery, has the tractor been converted to 12 volts together with the ancillaries. The Ground Lead should be attached to one of the bolts close to the Starter to give the best possible connection. The tractors were changed to 12 volts from serial number 161350.
John(UK)...fergusontractors@hotmail.com
 
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