To all intersted parties... the 23C again

[Tony in Mass.]

Yes, the horrible abuse... OK, self abuse? continues... I have a brain storm (?) watching Bill's CD for the 4th time, something you see and hear comes across stronger than on paper? Lately I have the time to attempt a better timing of the injector pump, oh it was waaay off.... I moved the gear by removing the timing gear casting from the block, and rolling the gear with a finger. Welding rod in the block/flywheel, pump sidecover off.. on letter B, rather than 'G'. Ok, she started- with ether of course, and ran, smoked, and stalled, it was still airbound. Too late to continue. So today I bleed the system end to end, started- with ether as usual, and ran, contiued to run, a bit of a throb, lots of power, still too much smoke for my taste. So I took the injectors out.
Last year I had a chore with a compression fitting, Dieseltech sends me the another line- and I popped off that one too! They all obviously fire, carboned up, a couple a bit oily on the outside, but I don't have a tester, so Monday I will see if a shop can check the spray pattern. The question is how much is ...acceptible? normal? destined for life???
Now, while it is on the dead track, I removed the lift cover, interesting accident we had. Cylinder has one deep scratch, looks old, browned, not a fresh gouge, the piston has a small chunk broken off, again, not a fresh break from a couple months ago, but oil stained from ages of soak. I found that piece in the base with a magnet on a stick. The only real recent damage... was two of the three snapped studs holding the cylinder to the cover. I will drill them out with the Bridgeport mill if there is no other cracks etc on the cyl.
Now, 2 questions. One, where the #$%^ is the 'relief valve'? In the base? on the pump? That is the only place left to look, since the fluid is still full. Second... is this an Achilles heal on this model? Since my '55 TO35 had such a bust up it must have took someone 3 or 4 hours to arc weld the damage, and they never fixed the levers properly. Apparently I dodged a bigger bullet than could have happened. Sorry, no pics, very boring so far anyway....
 

[Inno]

Relief valve is on the pump itself, right side, pointing towards the rear.
I KNEW you couldn't leave it alone. I'd be doing the same things.
I went to fire up my "new" 35 yesterday and it cranked and cranked and cranked and wouldn't fire. It had been a bit stubborn before so I kept trying until the battery was almost ready to give up. Then I started looking for a problem. I assumed ignition so I went to the 202 and looked at the dist. on it, it was in a different position by 45° but the plug wires were also correspondingly different. To make a long story short I made it look the same as the 202, found the timing marks and set it up with #1 at TDC and she fired right up. It's been much easier to start ever since.
Moral of the story, aside from gas engines being MUCH easier to deal with than diesels? You're gonna find something simple there.........and you're gonna be awefully pleased with yourself. Might even have a celebratory Black Label!
 

[supergrumpy]

I saw all that smoke east of here

thought it was either an unscheduled airshow or cropdusters
 

[Dieseltech]

Hi Tony! Hydraulic system safety valve is mounted on the hydraulic pump. If you need to I can check your injectors for you too. Still have not finished my 23C yet, still needs rear axle seals and steering box leaks repaired. I just keep using it as it is for now. At least it runs good.
 

[Dan S (NY)]

Hey Tony, I was waiting for the next 'chapter' in the standard diesel saga. Good to hear you haven't given up on it.

The hydraulic system on these definitely has the potential to blow up the lift cylinder and or top cover although I think that will only happen if the relief valve is clogged or has been replaced with an incorrect one that has the relief pressure set to high. I cracked open the cylinder on an MF50 because I forgot to set the lift height limit on the quadrant after putting everything back together and the relief valve didn't blow. I once looked at a TO35 for sale that I could tell was blowing the relief valve the entire time the lift was all they way up due to things out of adjustment. All it would take is something to suddenly clog the valve and Bang!

Dan
 

[2tractors]

Well we still have something to rib you about, 23c, standard deisel, are there more names for it that we need to know so the rest of us don't accidentally buy one?
 

[Inno]

[samn40]

Although this is the later pump with the filter cannister, it has the relief valve in the same place as the early pump, just beside the control valve, screwed into the back of the pump with the wire tied from the cannister over to it
Sam

 

[Tony in Mass.]

Yes 2, there are several unprintable names I call this engine... my favorite is from a rude version of Waltzing Matilda... involving pommies... don't ask... just google it
 

[Tony in Mass.]

Hummm. Just think if the FENA club had a plowing day with nothing but these diesel tractors... I bet they could see the haze from the space shuttle....
 

[Nicktrcat]

Hi everyone,
sorry to see that you do not recognise the symptoms of incorrect valve timing.
On the 23C engine the injection pump is driven by the camshaft,via an idler gear, which is in turn driven by a chain from the crankshaft. You only have to replace this cheap chain to obtain better starting WITHOUT heaters or ether, than any modern diesel car. After fifty years this poor chain be be scrap. It costs $50 or so with tensioner.
On the "pathenews" website there is a video showing how they started on the production line - instantly!
So if you use ether to get it to fire; you will have incorrect valve timing, the last one I repaired had the inlet valve retarded by 23 degrees. With less air to compress and retarded injection is it any wonder why they refuse to start?
Should you wish to repair your 23C to get it to start instantly without heaters or ether; email me.
nicktrcat@gmail.com I will not charge you for my advice