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301 reverser help

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RGMartin
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: 301 reverser help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Can anyone point me in the right direction? 301 diesel with hydraulic reverser. Determined with help it wasn't a clutch issue, but a reverser issue. Changed fluid, filter, cleaned screen, pressure went up to 60#in both forward and reverse.

Does anyone have a schematic that actually names what the various valves are in the reverser body? or maybe a service manual for the reverser which they could scan????

thanks,
rich
 
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jgriff
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: 301 reverser help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The pressure should be about 150. You can buy washers to shim the relief valve to raise pressure. If that don't work it is a transmission oil pump my guess. My 400 had pressure but the clutch packs flew apart.
 
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RGMartin
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 301 reverser help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

jgriff wrote:
(quoted from post at 17:21:52 10/02/12) The pressure should be about 150. You can buy washers to shim the relief valve to raise pressure. If that don't work it is a transmission oil pump my guess. My 400 had pressure but the clutch packs flew apart.


That is the issue, I don't know which one is the relief. The online parts schematic is kinda sketchy.

I tried shimming the valve on the bottom front of the valve with no change, still 60# at all engine speeds.

I would think if it was the pump pressure would get better with more revs???
 
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buickanddeere
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 301 reverser help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Adjusting a relief valve only regulates the max
pressure. More shims and holding a valve closed
tighter, that is already closed. Is not going to
raise the pressure.
Isolate the high-low pack supply and measure
trans oil pressure. The high-low pack maybe
leaking.
Either pump is pumping air from a suction side
leak. The suction side is restricted. The pump
output restriction has been reduced due to
leak(s). Or the pump is worn out.
Anything hydraulic changed or added on the
tractor?
How are the high pressure functions? 2250 psi
for the power steering, loader, backhoe etc?
Which valve and where exactly are you tinkering
with?
 
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RGMartin
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 301 reverser help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

buickanddeere wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:30:33 10/02/12)
How are the high pressure functions? 2250 psi
for the power steering, loader, backhoe etc?
Which valve and where exactly are you tinkering
with?



High pressure is fine.

The only outwardly visible valve is the one I was playing with. If I had a parts breakdown with names I could tell you what it was called, DEERE calls it a "pin fastener", "spring", "shim", and "fitting cap"... Lots of adjectives there.

Even a flow chart???
 
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Roy Suomi
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 301 reverser help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Put a gauge into the bottom plug on backcover of reverser control valve.. Watch pressures, transmission in neutral, run reverser forward .. If there is a wide range of pressures with throttle from near idle to wide open.. Look at the filter relief valve..You can see part of it from underneath when you take off the vertical transmission filter . On the side of the case ,remove plug inline with relief valve. Pry , scoot valve out of plug hole..You will find a spool and spring with a poppet inside the spool.. Look closely at the position of the poppet.. If it's not completely on it's stop, it's leaking trans pressure oil back to sump.. It doesn't take much at all to stick the poppet.. Just a speck of crap is all.. Put it back together and try it...
 
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RGMartin
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 301 reverser help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Roy Suomi wrote:
(quoted from post at 20:15:02 10/02/12) Put a gauge into the bottom plug on backcover of reverser control valve.. Watch pressures, transmission in neutral, run reverser forward .. If there is a wide range of pressures with throttle from near idle to wide open.. Look at the filter relief valve..You can see part of it from underneath when you take off the vertical transmission filter . On the side of the case ,remove plug inline with relief valve. Pry , scoot valve out of plug hole..You will find a spool and spring with a poppet inside the spool.. Look closely at the position of the poppet.. If it's not completely on it's stop, it's leaking trans pressure oil back to sump.. It doesn't take much at all to stick the poppet.. Just a speck of crap is all.. Put it back together and try it...


Thanks for the practical info. I have a gauge plumbed into that port at the moment. Pressure doesn't vary much, 60 pounds plus or minus a hair unless I shift it, then it drops to 0 momentarily. Will check that out, there was lots of crap in the hydraulic system. JDparts shows that valve but not in reference to any other parts so I had no idea where to look.
 


Last edited by RGMartin on Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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buickanddeere
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 301 reverser help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Any chance the valve you were shimming was the
priority valve on the high pressure line. That
ensures power steering oil prior to rockshaft or
scv's ?
 
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RGMartin
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:01 am    Post subject: Re: 301 reverser help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

buickanddeere wrote:
(quoted from post at 23:10:19 10/02/12) Any chance the valve you were shimming was the
priority valve on the high pressure line. That
ensures power steering oil prior to rockshaft or
scv's ?


Heck if I know. Blindly stabbing at this problem, as I have little or no info on this system.

Anyway stopped raining, more corn needs to come off, wheat needs to go into the ground Might be a few days before I get back to it again.
 
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buickanddeere
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 301 reverser help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

http://jdpc.deere.com/jdpc/servlet/com.deere.u9049
0.partscatalog.view.servlets.HomePageServlet_Alt

for the parts manual.

AR96662 OIL PUMP 1 -
XXXXXX (MARKED R39244 OR R57959) (SUB FOR
AR39107)
AR96662 OIL PUMP 1
XXXXXX - (MARKED R39244 OR R57959)
(SUB FOR AR39107)

TRANSMISSION RELIEF VALVE
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME
QTY TRACTOR SERIAL NO. REMARKS
1 R27175 DRAIN PLUG 1
2 F3171R O-RING 1
3 T22853 SLEEVE 1
4 R31698 SPRING 1
5 R39294 PIN FASTENER 1
6 34H247 SPRING PIN 2
1/8" X 3/4"



The transmission relief/divert valves are inside
the transmission iirc at the filter inlet.
There is a tempting looking thingmajig that
looks like a relief valve but is the steering
priority valve. Could that be what was shimmed?
The odd thing here is high pressure hydraulics
when the transmission supply to the front pump
should be weak?
If the transmission doesn't have enough
pressure. A valve will divert oil away from the
front pump supply and maintain transmission
lubrication.
The trans filter is often "forgotton" as the
operator manual service intervals are either not
read or ignored. If the divert valve starts to
chatter, sometimes the pressure spikes will jar
transmission oil lines and fittings into failure.
Could be as simple as a speck of dirt in a
transmission pressure control valve.
 
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Tx Jim
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:20 am    Post subject: Re: 301 reverser help Reply to specific post Reply with quote


buickanddeere
Are you implying that if RGMartin replaces the trans pump and filter relief valve that the hyd's on his tractor will operate properly??

I think that is an expensive possibility but not the cure for his tractors hyd problems.
 
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buickanddeere
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: 301 reverser help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Recommend trouble shooting instead installing random
parts.
 
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Tx Jim
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: 301 reverser help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

buickanddeere wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:20:23 10/04/12) Recommend trouble shooting instead installing random
parts.


Oh I thought you posted all those part numbers as an easy quick fix to the 3010 reverser problems,
 
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buickanddeere
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 301 reverser help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Tx Jim wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:11:15 10/04/12)
buickanddeere wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:20:23 10/04/12) Recommend trouble shooting instead installing random
parts.


Oh I thought you posted all those part numbers as an easy quick fix to the 3010 reverser problems,


Of note, Deere did update the pump to a later version with more flow. Either Deere was reducing redundant parts inventory. Or more oil flow was deemed a good idea.
 
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Tx Jim
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:07 am    Post subject: Re: 301 reverser help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

buickanddeere wrote:
(quoted from post at 23:36:00 10/04/12)


Of note, Deere did update the pump to a later version with more flow. Either Deere was reducing redundant parts inventory. Or more oil flow was deemed a good idea.


And are you implying that the updated later version with more flow is going to correct the hyd problem on the tractor in question?????????????
 
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