Yesterday's Tractor Co. Parts for Farm Tractors - Compare our Prices!
Click Here or call 800-853-2651 
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 9N,2N,8N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Traditional YT Forum ViewClassic View   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Faking 3 ph power?


 
Post new topic    
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bud in WV
Long Time User


Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 930


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:43 am    Post subject: Faking 3 ph power? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I had a 220v Jet 1236 lathe that I traded for a Rockwell 11" lathe. The Rockwell has a 230v 3 ph motor. Part of the trade was an OLD motor that supposed to be 3ph to generate the L3 phase to run this lathe. The guy I traded with had never wired it up so he was no help. Anyone have a wiring diagram or a good link for this?

I also have a box that was an original part of the lathe (from a local high school) that has a transformer, a Polyphase motor starter and a 3ph breaker in it.

The motor has NO markings on it - no name plate, no embossed company logo like GE or Westinghouse and no numbers on the 4 wires coming out of it. (It looks like it"s about 1930"s or 1940"s era.)

How do I test the wires to determine what"s L1, L2 & L3? What do I look for to determine which is the ground/neutral, the start leg and the L2 & L3 run legs? I"ll have to install machine grounds on the motor, box & lathe, too but that should be fairly simple.

I have a good multimeter, a good machining back ground and a good residential wiring back ground but I"m light in 3 phase and theory to figure this out on my own.

Thanks for any info!
 
Back to top
View user's profile
David G
Tractor Guru


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 9824


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:46 am    Post subject: Re: Faking 3 ph power? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Just put a 3 phase VFD on it and be done. You just have to upsize the VFD by 1/3 to compensate for the lost input phase.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
buickanddeere
Tractor Guru


Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 26547
Location: in front of computer

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:21 am    Post subject: Re: Faking 3 ph power? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

For continuous max output, increase the VFD by 1.73 times. A 5HP VFD in this application.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Kirk Grau
Long Time User


Joined: 27 Feb 2004
Posts: 963
Location: South Central Pennsylvania

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:37 am    Post subject: Re: Faking 3 ph power? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I agree with the guys saying put a VFD on it. Haunt some a woodworking forums, many home shops have 3PH equipment wired through cobbled up phase converters using a variety of methods. Some installations are more "elegant" than others. The VFD is by far the nicest arrangement. Sell the 3PH motor you have to recover some of the VFD cost.

Kirk
 
Back to top
View user's profile
JDseller
Tractor Guru


Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 4484
Location: North-East Iowa

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: Faking 3 ph power? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Is the motor a special one?? Meaning is it intergal? If it is just an external motor then just replace it with a single phase one. I have also made the factory motor just be a jack shaft and drove it with a single phase motor.If it can't be replaced then go with the newer style inverter. I had one made out of a motor. You had to spine it as you turned it on to make it work. It was a real PIO to use and took up floor space.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
timcasbolt
Regular


Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 274


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Faking 3 ph power? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Here's a link to the area for instruction sheets and whatnot at phaseamatic.com. HTH
 
Back to top
View user's profile
timcasbolt
Regular


Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 274


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Faking 3 ph power? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

http://www.phase-a-matic.com/StaticDescription.htm
 
Back to top
View user's profile
JMS/.MN
Tractor Guru


Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 7947


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Faking 3 ph power? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

google home made phase converters. I made mine with a 5hp 3 phase and a 220V half horse spinner motor. Basically hook L1, L2, and L3 to the input side of a 3 phase switchbox. Hook 220V single phase to two of the poles in the switchbox to the motor side, using L1 and L2. On the load side of the switchbox, run L1, L2, and L3 to the motor you want to run. The half horse motor gets hinged to the 3 phase motor, belted to it, and is wired to a little switchbox that is wired to the 220V input of the big box. Start the spinner motor, when the 3 phase is up to speed, turn on the big box, and shut off the little on, flip the hinge so the belt loosens. L3 is generated by the 3 phase motor. No capacitors needed....Voila! 3 phase power.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Bud in WV
Long Time User


Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 930


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:22 am    Post subject: Re: Faking 3 ph power? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for the info guys! The VFD sounds like it'd be great but I can't afford $1k for what I'd need. The lathe motor is 3hp so it'd take a 5hp rated VFD.

I have a friend who's an *old* electrician - 85 & still working...he enjoys it. I hope he can determine which lead is which.

I have several 1/2hp & 1hp motors I can use to kick start this one...or use a pull rope. Basically I can build what I need with parts I have on hand or spend $1k to go the easy route.

Thanks for all the info! I never heard of a VFD - I was mechanical - not a sparky....
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Jeff NWOH
Regular


Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 383


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:48 am    Post subject: Re: Faking 3 ph power? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You can also use a capacitor to start your inverter motor and eliminate the little pony motor. I've got a small one i built this way and also a larger one that was factory built.

The nice thing about about a rotary converter as opposed to a VFD is that you can also run other 3 phase motors from it. A VFD is set up for only 1 motor.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Yesterday's Tractors Forum Index -> Tool Talk All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
TRACTOR   PARTS TRACTOR   MANUALS
Same-Day Shipping! Most of our stocked parts ship the same day you order (M-F).  Expedited shipping available, just call!  Most prices for parts and manuals are below our competitors.  Compare our super low shipping rates!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor.  We are a Company you can trust and have generous return policies!   Shop Online Today or call our friendly sales staff toll free (800) 853-2651.

YT Home  |  Forums Home

Copyright © 1997-2014 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters