O.T.Poverty level?

[Lou from Wi.]

Read the post on poverty level and what situations make up that level.Taxes ,Local as explained in some posts. LJD had the solution as how to negate poverty.Being this is a farm related(mostly)site,,I was wondering if all the farm subsidies was removed, the poverty level in numbers would JUMP Dramatically.Poverty has a way of making the common man EQUAL with out reservations. Makes folks pool resources to survive, like some old timers I've met said "It Separates the wheat from the schaff."(SP).Little fly by night (so called)farmers that claim to be BTO have second jobs to make it possible to claim farm subsidies and related benefits. If the subsidies are removed, by by farms, and the BTO smoke screen disappear in a hurry.Well that just may be on the agenda for the next four years coming up. Tax money will be a major conversation in governments. HOY TO SAVE MONEY BY OMITTING these Programs ETC. JMHO, LOU.
 

[pete black]

poverty today is not the poverty of ole timers. poverty does not have tattos, body piercings, cell phones, large screen tvs, buggies loaded with meat, prepared food and 50 lb. bags of dog food. oh, i forgot, the red box outside the door for dvd rentals if they can swaddle over to it.
 

[rrlund]

Can I ask you seriously how much we make in "farm subsidies"?
No matter what the hard core left and right wing talk radio say,we don't live off government handouts.
I pay three times as much in property taxes alone than I get from DCP,and DCP as ALL that I get. Woopie,I'd have to come up with a third more at property tax time. God help me! I'm gonna starve!
 

[oldtanker]

Lou I think Pete has it right. A few years ago.....like about 20, some of our esteamed politicians were shocked to learn that the average family DIDN"T eat steak 2-3 time a week and thier idea of dinning out was fast food.

These politicians (party don't matter) haven't lived in poverty so what they call poverty really isn't. Basically what poverty means to them is that you DON"T eat steak 2-3 time a week, DON'T eat out in a sit down type place 1-2 times a weeks, DON'T owe on a 250,000 or better home, DON'T have two nice, no more than 5 year old cars, shop at yard sale for kids play cloths, DON'T go on fancy vacations......well you get the idea. 40 years ago that was underprivileged not poverty.

Rick
 

[twopop]

several members of this site are always talking down on less fortunate people, if they are christians they have no right to judge.

the poverty level as currantly defined as a family of four earning $22,000 or less.

like to see the mouthy group try it.
 

[Erik Ks farmer]

I don't understand what you're saying Lou, "have second jobs to claim farm subsidies"? The only farm subsidies I am aware of are received through the DCP and ACRE programs and producers are only eligible based upon the base acres of each farm where they actually plant a crop. Like Randy said, in the big picture these payments are fairly insubstantial and cutting farm subsidies is not going to put anyone into poverty OR reduce the number of farmers. $4 dollar diesel fuel and 20 bushel corn will do that.
 

[rrlund]

I'm telling you,this kind of thing hits a raw nerve with me. A hand full of nut job extremists who think FDR is still president have way too many people thinking we're on welfare out here.

So I get back about the equivelent of a third of my property taxes. I don't want to attack the person who made the original post,but that one was a complaint that he'd have to START paying property taxes.

Every study that's been done on the subject shows the same thing. For every dollar collected in property taxes on residential and commercial property,it costs $1.25 to provide services. On the other side of the coin,for every dollar collected on farm and open land,it cost's 35 cents to provide services. If my math is right,I'm still paying a third more than I owe to subsidize the rest of the residents and businesses in this county.

And as far as poverty goes,in this township,I'm chairman of the board that decides whether or not people GET poverty exemptions. I have to MAKE those decisions,not just talk about them. I KNOW there's poverty out there and people who can't pay,but the bottom line is pretty simple,if you want government services,somebody has to pay for them. Simple as that.
 

[David G]

I grew up with HARD working poor parents. They always made sure that we had what we needed first. I know there were times that they did not know where the money would come from. We never took food stamps, nor handouts.

I am not faulting those that do, but I have a hard time seeing it when there is money for drugs, booze or tatoo's. If you can take care of your family without support, then think about those extras.
 

[LJD]

Right now - in my area . . . Government subsides for corn to produce ethanol is a big one. Tax payer supported and many in my area are doing it. None of them are what I'd call "full time" farmers. That is to say - they all have full time jobs elsewhere and so do their wives. Much of the corn they're are growing isn't even on their own lands.
 

[rrlund]

Is that something that the State of New York is doing?
 

[LJD]

There is no one figure to represent what is poverty in the USA. There are at least twelve different "poverty" formulas used by various divisions of the US Federal Government. The one you have cited if from the Department of Health and Human Services. There are many others with different figures.

And you say Christians cannot judge? That is bunch of hooey.
Sounds like you are working from a small part of Matthew 7.1. Read is context - it does not forbid good Christians to make judgements.

Judging is simply the process of evaluation that people employ everyday to make determinations of what is true or not true.

In Zechariah 3:7 God states that He gives those who obey Him the authority to judge, "Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by."

Ever read in the Book of Judges (Old Testament)?

Everyday life requires us to make constant judgements. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with pre-judging either. It's funny how many make the word "prejudice" a bad thing. We could not survive without it. We must prejudge when we need to make decisions and have incomplete information.

I don't claim to be a good Christian. But, if I was - I'd be fine with judging and prejudging. Looking down others is a different issue.
 

[David G]

I would bet most farming operations rent 1/4 to 1/2 of their ground, what is your point?
 

[Ultradog MN]

I've been living at or below the poverty level for the last couple of years and if something (or someone) doesn't change in November I'll be giving up the internet come the day of inaguration as I can no longer afford it.
I know how to live and eat cheaply and I am resourceful.
Country boy can survive.
But too bad it's coming to that.
 

[LJD]

It starts at the Federal level at the tune of 6 billion dollars per year. I know very little about the fine details except just about anybody in my area with a tractor, planter and access to farmland had been doing it. And - I've been asked by several if they could plant on my land. It's gotten so now that no other crops are being grown because of the huge ethanol subsidy.

I know the Federal Government had been spending 6 billion dollars a year on the ethanol subsidies and that is available in any state. Right now much of that "funny" money is set to dry up in Dec, 2012. But - I'll believe that when I see it actually end.
 

[Greg1959]

Here is an idea!

Select your state and search for your name.

Yes, I am listed. I was paid to not grow crops!

I opted out of the program because I felt it wasn't right.

How many of you opted out?
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