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TE 20 Rear Axle Question

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Langus
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:13 pm    Post subject: TE 20 Rear Axle Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Today we made some really good progress putting the ole TE 20 back together. We installed the new rear axle outer seals, the new outer bearings, the shrink collars, brake backing plates. We installed the rear axles back onto the diff housing with all new gaskets throught. My question being, with everything tight, I know that the inner axles are not supposed to touch and ours dont but they do have some in/out travel. It is very minimal and it did that before we took them all apart. The bearings are pressed on as far as they can go. Is it normal to have very minimal horizontal travel? To my way of thinking the bearing retainer should be tight to the backing plate (ours is) and the axle should not move at all?
Thoughts on this? I will post some pics very soon.
 
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samn 40
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:50 am    Post subject: Re: TE 20 Rear Axle Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You may need to remove some of the shims,Were there any in the first place?
Sam
 
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John(UK)
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:48 am    Post subject: Re: TE 20 Rear Axle Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You have too many shims fitted you need to remove some and test it again. There is a correct procedure for setting this, it is not just a matter of sticking it all back together. If you run with the end-float in the axle, it will, over a period of time knock the Collar off the Axle-shaft and destroy the shaft as well. If you need the correct info on how to set the End- Float, email me direct at the address below, tell me what you are wanting (as I will forget) and then I can send it to you...John(UK)...fergusontractors@hotmail.com
 
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Langus
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:01 am    Post subject: Re: TE 20 Rear Axle Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

No there were not any shims in place to start with. The only thing in there is the gasket between the brake backing plate and the axle housing. That is the way it was when we took it apart. We put it back together that way in hopes that we could get it dialed in with shims. Maybe we missed something? We read back through the manual and best we can figure we did the correct steps. I will dig back through it again today. Any other thoughts?
 
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Langus
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: TE 20 Rear Axle Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

No there are not any shims in it and there wasnt when we took it apart either. Is it possible for it to move at all with only one of the axles installed?
I know the manual says to have something like 2-8 thousands between the two axles which I dont know if you could really "feel" that small of travel correct?
 
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PackardV8
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: TE 20 Rear Axle Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Use a tool called a dial indicator to cheque endplay. Easier if u buy magnetic base. A Harbour Fright unit should be just fine. Probably about $40.00. Some of us that are accustomed to doing this kind of work can do it by hand +or- .003" believe it or not. I used a dial indicator on my anyway. Not much way of using a feeler gauge with any accuracy for this application tho.
 
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Langus
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: TE 20 Rear Axle Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I do have a dial indicator with magnetic base. I think where my problem is coming from is that the axle has movement from the bearing retainer. We pressed the bearing on the axle as far as they would go and then installed the shrink collars (hot and fully seated on the bearing). I guess this brings up one more question...if you make it so that the axle has zero movement off of the bearing retainer, would the bearing retainer and axle (where the lugs are) rub badly together?

By the way, thanks John (UK) for the help and friendly email! I will dig into it today again and see what we can come up with. Thanks for the patience, we are mechanically capable but this being our firt tractor restore!
 
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PackardV8
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:23 am    Post subject: Re: TE 20 Rear Axle Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

NOTE!!! When adjusting end play for LEFT shaft be sure that the RITE shaft is pushed IN and remains pushed in all of the way. Do the same for the Rite side adjustment. Make sure left shaft is pushed in all of the way.

ALSO, if u find that many shims are required on one side and none on the other then it mite be advisable to re-shim in an effort to have (as close as reasonably possible) the same number of shims on each side.

IIRC this covered in the service manual. U should have such a manual. It is important. There are several hidden secrets about the Ferguson that i would have missed had i not had the manual.
 


Last edited by PackardV8 on Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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PackardV8
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: TE 20 Rear Axle Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


IIRC the manual indicates shims (for TO-20) between backing plate and axle. Shims MITE have been installed between hub and backing plate.

I am surprised u did not find any shims at all. If a shop did the press work for u then maybe they did not return shims to u.
 
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PackardV8
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: TE 20 Rear Axle Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


The endplay is to keep the INTERNAL ends of the axles from rubbing each other. It has nothing to do with the bearing retainer or lugs rubbing on the outboard sides. Note that what i have described here is for TO-20. I am not sure if TE-20 is different or not. I don't have my manual handy rite now.
 
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samn40
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: TE 20 Rear Axle Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Too thick of a gasket can upset the end float, this goes for the gasket on the inner trumpet housing as well as the outer end. You may get away with no gasket paper and use an instant gasket/ silicon instead. Some may not agree but new tractors are stuck together with instant gasket and they may have more stress loads than your Fergie ever will!
Sam
 
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PackardV8
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: TE 20 Rear Axle Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


TE or TO should not make any difference. It is general differential axle criteria.
 
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Langus
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: TE 20 Rear Axle Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thank you all for your input. I guess I may not be descibing the symptoms well enough. I understand that we DO NOT want the axle ends in the Diff touching. I also understand that shims can be used to adjust clearances etc...

My problem being ( I think we may have a outer bearing placement issue)that even with shims etc installed, my problem is that the axle itself moves independant (in and out) of the bearing retainer even with the retainer bolted down tight to the backing plate and axle housing. We installed the outer seal and bearing all the way in as far as they would go and then installed the shrink collar. I will try to attach a photo of the axle. We have cleaned all of the brake fluid and hay out! It was in bad shape.

As in the picture, if you grab the bearing retainer and pull up, you can move it approx 1/8". I dont think that is right but that brings up the question, if you get it so it doesnt move at all, is the bottom of the bearing retainer going to rub on the back of the lug flange? Sorry for all of the posts today but I dont want to do this again or have issues in the future. You guys are great help!

 
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Charles in Aus.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: TE 20 Rear Axle Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Some bearings supplied for Ferguson axles are incorrect. They are missing the radius on the inner edge. When fitting these the incorrectly machined right angle edge stops the bearing from seating properly and causes symptoms such as you have now. Look at the old bearing's inside inner race edge and see if it has a radius ; it will . Then check if a new bearing from the same supplier has the same .
 
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Langus
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: TE 20 Rear Axle Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Charles, I think you might be onto something here. I had the local machine shop press the bearings for me because I couldnt get the old bearings off and while they had it on their press, just finish it for me. The new Bearings are Timken ones that i ordered off of "fixthatferguson". The model # they have listed is S.18516.

I do have video of both axles doing it if anyone out there wants to see exactly what I am talking about, I am not sure how to post a video on here but I can email them to anybody curious enough to help. Thanks again!
 
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