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You never no what you will find when you tear one down...


 
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Jason S.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:51 am    Post subject: You never no what you will find when you tear one down... Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My TO20 has been leaking at the axles and i have no brakes so I figure I'd put some sure seals in it and fix the brakes. I tear it down and find brand new brake shoes on it, although oil soaked. Pull the axles and find sure seals already on it. I pop them out and find it has new bearings but the bearings were never packed with grease.... And the shims were covered in red silicone and there was no gaskets on either side of the brake backing plate. So...I'm off to get some gaskets at the dealer...I think the bearings are ok because there was enough oil pouring thru there to keep them lubed but I have to pack them and then check the end play once i get it back together.Anybody else ever run into a mess like this that someone has done?
 
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Bruce(OR)
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That is what makes this a bit of a challenge is fixing the last guys goofs.
Short fiber wheel beaing grease is what your after. The same stuff used in drum brake cars.
Drive your seals on with a 3' section of 3" black plastic ABS pipe.
Make sure the leading edges of the seal are chamfered to ensure a smooth fit. If not, file them down to an angle.
 
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PackardV8
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

[quote="Jason S."](quoted from post at 07:51:14 10/12/12)...d find brand new brake shoes on it, although oil soaked. Pull the axles and find sure seals already on it. "

U fail to mention whether or not there was an OUTSIDE seal. Someone correct me if iam wrong but the Sure Seal is NOT factory seal. No such INTERNAL seal was used by the factory. ONly an EXTernal seal used by factory.

So if there is no external seal or it is bad then any grease packed into the bearing worked it's way out. BUT, u indicated "oil" soaked linings not grease soaked linings.

So form your description as written it sounds like Sure seal failed AND OEM OUTER seal failed too or was nonexistent.
 


Last edited by PackardV8 on Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jason S.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I know they are not the factory seal... I was just saying
somebody before me put them in there and they had failed. So
yes both seals had failed. I just got back from the MF dealer
with the backing plate gaskets so now it"s time to put it all back
together...properly.
 
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John(UK)
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:16 am    Post subject: Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sure seals were never used on production.
TO20 and TE20's only had one outer seal. TO30 and later TE20's after 1953 had an inner and outer seal fitted from new. No gaskets fitted is a common mistake and often only one gasket has been fitted when it has been repaired. You need to fit the shims next to the Trumpet Housing and then a gasket, then the Brake Back Plate, then a gasket, next is the Bearing Hub. Either seals can show up as failed due to overfilling the Transmission and this happens a lot..John(UIK)...fergusontractors@hotmail.com
 
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wforpm
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:04 am    Post subject: Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

WOW , My TO-30 is doing the same thing , leaking fluid at the rear axle. Left hand side only. So I'm planning to take it down this winter. Will rebuild the hydraulic lift system at the same time. Lift has been sticking in the up position , after it sits for a while it will free up and move. ? Not sure what this is , but will find out.
 
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Jason S.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:13 am    Post subject: Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I got it taken care of...she finally has brakes again. Although I did cheat and reuse the new brake shoes that were on it. I heated them up and got the oil out of them. Yes I know I should have gotten a new set...but I"m off work right now so I just have to do the best I can with what I have. I read on here where John(UK) had said that when they used silicone instead of the paper gaskets on the backing plate you could not get a proper torque on the studs because of the silicone giving. After working on mine I can say that"s true because none of the studs were tight at all.
 
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John(UK)
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I think that you may find that when the Brakes heat up any oil left in the linings will come up to the surface and you will have a lack of brakes again. This has been tried many times before and everyone thought they had managed to get the oil out of the linings by using various methods and solvents etc, but we never had one that didn't fail. If you really MUST use sealant on the gaskets, you need to use some very thin sealant, that would squash out easier than silicone and would not alter the thickness of the gaskets as that would alter the end float. The problem is with using that, if you have to repair it at any time, then it takes an awful lot of cleaning to get it off...John(UK)..fergusontractors@hotmail.com
 
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Jason S.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I did not use any sealant. Just a thin smear of grease to hold the gaskets in place until I got the axle back in. I will get another set of brake shoes in a few weeks. I go back to work after next week, but I needed my tractor to rake hay is why I heated them with a torch and reused them. It"s not the only tractor I"ve got that needs brakes. My MF 175 needs them to but I"m thinking i will do the wet brake conversion on it. You are lucky on that side of the pond that you got the later 100 series with wet brakes...we didn"t get them on this side.
 
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John(UK)
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:15 am    Post subject: Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well that makes a change for us to get something that you didn't, we always feel like the poor relations...lol. Grease is fine on gaskets, it's just sealant that can cause problems. With the disk brakes, always adjust them when they are hot because everything expands.Leave plenty of free play.2.5", can't be sure on that but I think it was.
John(UK)...fergusontractors@hotmail.com
 
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Jason S.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:01 am    Post subject: Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have to admit when I watch some of those old Ferguson and Massey Ferguson films that I have, I get jealous sometimes. We didn"t get wet brakes til later in the 200 series, and you got the TED20"s and such. I have never seen one in person. I imagine there are some here in the US but they must have been brought over.
 
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John(UK)
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I only have had dealings with one in the USA, I think there may be a couple in Canada too, but they are few and far between because of the shortage of fuel for them. Kerosene was not really suitable, to burn that you needed a Zero octane engine, Ferguson did have them but they nearly all went to hot climates. They must have made a TO version of the TED and it was called the TOD, but no-one I know has ever seen one.I have a list for the parts that are different to the gas tractor, but its only the engine that is different..John(UK)..fergusontractors@hotmail.com
 
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Harry O'Neal
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi John I'm having the same problem with my TO-20 1951 Harry Furguson an I was wondering if you new where I could get a diagram of how to fix this problem. I am not as smart as I thought I was .I have it tore down but I;m not sure if I'm doing right .I would appreachiate any help .
 
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John(UK)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: You never no what you will find when you tear one down.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you email me direct at the address below and then I can get your email address from that. I will send you the information....tell me what you have done so far...John(UK)...fergusontractors@hotmail.com
 
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