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Ford 8000 overheat

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Adam Sheridan
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Ford 8000 overheat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I am asking for some troubleshooting help on a perplexing Ford 8000 overheat. I was driving the tractor from a distant field yesterday when it began to knock. As I pulled into my farm and let off the throttle, the engine quit. I tried to restart but the starter labored. I assumed two separate problems: clogged injectors and failed cooling system. The engine started up after it cooled off.

I cleaned the injectors and that problem appears to be solved. I took the tractor to another field today after idling for a while to finish the injector cleaning problem. At the field the tractor died as soon as I put it under load and I experienced the same labored starter issue. I came back after lunch and it started right up. In both overheat cases, the radiator did not overflow and both the inlet and outlet hoses were very firm (under pressure).

I just finished flushing the radiator. I noticed the pump is moving a reasonable volume but not at much pressure at about 1400 rpm. I pulled the belt off the pump and it turns freely and seems to move fluid. Thermo is not stuck closed. At this point my questions are: what are the possible failure modes for the centrifugal pump? Can it fail to a low pressure state without a leak? Are there other troubleshooting steps I should try? Why would the radiator not overflow? Thanks for any help you can offer.
 
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Bern
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 8000 overheat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I think you have bigger problems than cooling system issues. Having the engine knock, then die, and then not want to turn over is NOT a good sign. I'd be pulling an oil sample before I did much more with it. I suspect an overheat condition caused a seizure, which "goes away" as the engine cools. The problem is though, if I'm right, the problem will not heal itself.
 
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Royse
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 8000 overheat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm not familiar with the 8000, but it seems like it would be new enough to
have a temp gauge to help with troubleshooting?
I have to agree with Bern though, that knock/seize would seem to me to be bigger issues.
 
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WayneIA
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 8000 overheat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

in common every day language, he has at least one fried piston
 
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RodinNS
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 8000 overheat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm afraid I've got to agree with Bern...

Rod
 
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36 Coupe
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:54 am    Post subject: Re: Ford 8000 overheat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Fins could be gone from the impeller or a plastic impeller can split on the shaft.What does the temp guage read?Put a meat thermometer in the top tank and get actual water temp.Pull the thermostat and test it on the stove in a tuna can full of water.Check full open temp.
 
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Adam Sheridan
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: Ford 8000 overheat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks to you all. I agree that the problem is more serious than I had hoped. There are metal particles in the oil. I haven't checked the filter for chunks yet. Strangely, the engine runs smoothly in general, no obvious knocking since I cleaned the injectors but it's not just a cooling system issue.
 
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Adam Sheridan
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: Ford 8000 overheat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Do any of you know the oil system on the 401 engine? I pulled the valve cover the other day and noticed that oil was pouring out of the cyl 5 lifter and the associated head bolt at a very high rate. The head bolt washer was malformed and I sealed it but the lifter continued to pour out oil, much higher volume than any of the others. I am just wondering if each cylinder has a separate oil path and if a lot of oil coming out the lifter means inadequate oil at the camshaft for that cylinder.
 
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Bern
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Ford 8000 overheat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If there is oil pouring out past a lifter, then you have a cracked block. The main oil gallery intersects all of the lifter bores.

If you have metal in the oil on top of all this, then it sounds like it's time to put the old girl out to pasture. Not many 8000s out there are worthy of a several thousand dollar engine overhaul, if you could even do it.
 
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Adam Sheridan
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 8000 overheat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks Bern. I can't do an overhaul for sure. I hope to have the equip and knowledge one day but I'm not there yet. Can you give me some idea of why oil gushing out at #5 would indicate a crack? Is that because pressure from the cylinder is driving the oil out that lifter? Are there other possibilities that I might troubleshoot? Unfortunately, scraping this tractor has some some serious implications for me so I can't take that decision lightly. My mech can't even touch it until next week which is almost too late. Thanks!
 
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mark in boonville ny
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 8000 overheat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

dont scrap it there isnt very many left as it. i love mine to death. ive put so many parts in mine its almost a new tractor but it dont matter to me im not getting rid of it any time soon. start calling some salvage yards for a cheap low hred engine.
 
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Check Break
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 8000 overheat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The last time I went looking for a Ford reman I decided on Abilene Machine. After talking to the engine shop for a while, I believe they know what they're doing. If your block is not repairable they should have another block. Unfortunately I did not buy the tractor I was looking at and did not need an engine so I don't have any experience with their products. Perhaps someone else can jump in here and let you know what they know about their remans.

It will cost you more than 4K to repower your 8000 and when you're done it won't be worth what you have in it. So what, its still cheaper than a new one. If you use a good engine shop you will at least know what you have and that machine should give you many more thousands of hours of service.
 
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RodinNS
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:00 am    Post subject: Re: Ford 8000 overheat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If it was mine... I can almost guarnantee you that I'd go looking for a newer tractor like a TW or even an 8700... just for the simple fact that you're getting a nicer cab. That's from a practical standpoint.
If ~this~ 8000 is of some great importance... then I'd probably go looking for a used engine. That may or may not be easy to find. Places like Fawcett tractor wreck a lot of Fords and they more than likely have a 401 around in stock. HOWEVER.... one needs to make certain that it's the correct 401 with the rear drive/sump oil pump vs the newer style front pump. New engines will not fit behind the front bolsters of the 8000.

Rod
 
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WNY Molines
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 8000 overheat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sounds like you have had a heat seizure on more than one occasion. The pistons expand at a different rate than the other parts in the engine and temporarily seize to the cylinder bores. Thats why your starter labors when you try to start it immediatly after it quits on you.After time, everything cools down and the pistons un-seize allowing it to run completely normal. I"d be willing to bet those "metal" peices you found wont stick to a magnet, indicating that it"s aluminum from the pistons that seize.
 
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Adam Sheridan
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 8000 overheat Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That is good information. I'll run the oil over a magnet this week. What would cause a piston to start seizing and why would it happen multiple times? Never boiled over, radiator was clogged up from cutting high weeds earlier that week. Would faulty/dirty injectors cause this? Thanks so much for your help!
 
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