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1850 perkins crank pulley revisited


 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: 1850 perkins crank pulley revisited Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I posted here last week about my crank pulley stripping over the splines on the crank shaft on this 1850 Perkins. Found the splines on the crank are still ok. I got a new pulley today from Maibach's via AGCO and its totally different and can't be used. They swear its the proper part but said it's design was updated. The origial has a collar of about 2" that slips over the crank splines, one pulley only and 9 bolt holes to bolt the harmonic balancer to in front of it. The one they sent me has a collar about 3/4", three pulleys on it with a rubber dampner which my original does'nt have and no possible way the harmonic balancer weight will bolt up to it. The collar is so short the spines dont even my any contact. The splines seem to be the only thing common with both pulleys. Whats going on here? Talked to the parts woman and the machanic there an they say they have sold these before with no issues reported. Engine serial # is 8512917 C making it a 3rd and last series perkins for the 1850 by my records. Tractor serial # is 174-804-427 making it a 66 model. Please help with any Knowledge or advice.
 
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J. Schwiebert
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: 1850 perkins crank pulley revisited Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Please explain what you mean here: Engine serial # is 8512917 C making it a 3rd and last series perkins for the 1850 by my records. Late 1850 tractors used the second method of Perkins engine I. D. (The 354 U numbers) Your engine does not have a build number so if you ask a Perkins dealer and you get a younger parts man he will be lost since you don't have a build number. Where are you located? I know several older Perkins dealers to check. Also I am going to bear other bad news. I think it might be wise to replace that liquid dampner. They are not cheap!, but neither is a new crankshaft.
 
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wilma
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:02 am    Post subject: Re: 1850 perkins crank pulley revisited Reply to specific post Reply with quote

your pulley assembly should have the number 31147232, which is a perkins number and could be obtained through tom's agri diesel or other perkins dealers. as for the damper there is fellow in oregon that rebuilds them... which is most likely the underlying cause of your problem. as for the collar it should be smooth bore, made of soft steel, so when it is installed it "cuts" its own splines, but it is not any longer than 3/4" hope this helps
 
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:51 am    Post subject: Re: 1850 perkins crank pulley revisited Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I am in Texas. The serial number is stamped above the auxillary shaft housing by the injector pump. The info I obtained about the three series of Perkins was from a Sherry Schaefer article on 1850s' in her Oliver Heritage magazine a couple years back. This 2" collar I speak of on my original is stepped down in two sizes being about 3" outer diameter nearest the pulley, 1" long and reduced to about 2 1/4" OD, 1" long. The smaller diameter part has the splines made into it. The collar on the new part they sent me is only 3/4" long, 2 1/4" OD which means it will not reach the crank. The end of the crank is too far inside the front motor mount and needs that 2" of collar to keep the pulley from rubbing the motor mount. Surely I'm not the only one that has ever run into this. I also do not know anything about a liquid filled dampner. My original pulley has a round, appears to be heavy steel, not cast flywheel type weight bolted to it by nine 5/16 bolts. No liquid or rubber involved in that design as far as I can tell. There are no numbers stamped into this pulley, weight or the two metal rings that bolt the two together with.
 
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: 1850 perkins crank pulley revisited Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I gave this part # you gave me to the Perkins dealer in Houston. Talked to a gentleman that's been in the business for a long time and was familiar with the Oliver tractor version 354. He will have one on Monday, I just hope it's the same or compatable unlike the one I recieved from AGCO. I'm not convinced they got part numbers right and perhaps sent me the wrong one.
 
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mm585
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: 1850 perkins crank pulley revisited Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Off the subject but not really. I have a 1955 that I repowered with a 354 out of a 2-105. I used the 1850 front cover and mount as well as the tub. The problem is that I cant keep the balancer tight. twice a year the balancer comes loose. I have tryed lock tite and that didnt seem to help. I tightened it up out in the field the last time now it wobbles. whats the cure? I doubt that it makes any diffrence but the inj. pump is set at 10% over factory spec for an 1135 massey witch is 135hp out of the box. Thanks.
 
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: 1850 perkins crank pulley revisited Reply to specific post Reply with quote

What shape is that wedge ring in? Maybe it's the problem. My original is splined to slip over the shaft. The updated version AGCO sent me is not splined. Don't know what that matters but the Perkins dealer has the splined ring I need on the shelf, or so he says. Also, locktite is the right thing to use I am told by the Perkins dealer. No neverseez or lube, it needs to be dry and tight.
 
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wilma
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 1850 perkins crank pulley revisited Reply to specific post Reply with quote

mr broke....what you call a wedge, i call a collar, that being said I would prefer the splined one from perkins. make sure you torque the main bolt to 300 ft lbs+ (check that spec). getting back to the damper...on one of the faces there is a finger nail sized steel circle, which is the fill point for the "oil". what happens over time is the "oil" leaks out and vibrations occur. that is why the front pulley "walks" off the crankshaft. the rebuilder for those is dale manufacturing good luck
 
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 1850 perkins crank pulley revisited Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Looked over mine and it has two round protruding "pegs" about 5/16 wide and placed exactly opposite of each other on the face of my balancer. They protrude from the face of the balancer about a fingernail thick if thats what you mean. I'm guessing they are pressed in as they do not have any means of backing them out and perhaps there is or was liquid in there at one time? When I shake it it feels like no liquid is present in there. I am trying to educate myself on the design of this part. Hopefully the Perkins dealer can get me fixed up. Thanks for the info on the repair shop if I need to go that route.
 
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 1850 perkins crank pulley revisited Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Mr. J, you are correct on two accounts, I looked at a 68 model today and the stamp had the 354U stamp as you said (as well as casting numbers on the right side of the block that are non existant on mine). I'm not so sure that the article I read is accurate. Also sir, you are correct about recommending to talk to an "older, seasoned" guy at the parts counter as I would call them. The younger guys look at at you crossed eyed and say "Duuuuh, whats an Oliver? Never heard of one, duuuuh??" I found one of these guys you mentioned at a Perkins dealer in Houston. A seasoned guy. Thanks J.

One other thing, the set up on that 68 1850 is the same as my 66, exactly. A one belt pulley with the same type 9 bolt balancer.
 
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:39 am    Post subject: Re: 1850 perkins crank pulley revisited Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If it rains I might have a chance to check some numbers for you. If not we want to finish beans today and I will check them the first of the week.
 
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Mitch Poindexter
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: 1850 perkins crank pulley revisited Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My 1850 Perkins is at Big M Engine in Houston right now getting rebuilt. Crank pulley had worn the splins on my crank and ruined the crank. You're welcome to go by and look at my pieces if it will help you, I think my damper is fine.
 
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J. Schwiebert
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 1850 perkins crank pulley revisited Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I looked in my old book. We sold 1850 serial number 174-836. Engine number was 8517031. We also sold tractor 174 837 which had engine number 85520794. The dampner is liquid filled and they will not shake. It is a thick liquid and they wear out internally with useage. I am checking on the new part numbers for the part numbers you are looking for. A defective dampner can cause crankshaft failure. We were told that several times in service school.
 
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 1850 perkins crank pulley revisited Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I can believe it. I will have the Perkins guy look at mine and give an opinion. Said he can get a new one but it wont be cheap. Any numbers you can get us would be great. Thanks.
 
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