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ARCO petee
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 Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:47 am Post subject: Whining spool valve. |
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Greetings from the tip of Lake Superior. I acquired a 48 front mount 12v this spring. I've been fixing mechanical issues all summer and finally got to the loader. It's a Paulson light duity, originally a trip but converted to hydraulic with a single center mounted ram. It has a front mounted pump. Up and down work fine but when I move the bucket the motor loads down and something whines. A dowel and an ear later the sound is loudest at the front of the spool (the side furthest from the handle). I took the valve apart from what I can see its fine. No grooves in the body or piston it's an energy valve BTW. I removed the lines from the ram and figured I would try to extend it manually. I couldn't do it would not even budge. Is this typical or might this be my problem?
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TheOldHokie
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:58 am Post subject: Re: Whining spool valve. |
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| ARCO petee wrote: | | (quoted from post at 11:47:40 10/27/12) Greetings from the tip of Lake Superior. I acquired a 48 front mount 12v this spring. I've been fixing mechanical issues all summer and finally got to the loader. It's a Paulson light duity, originally a trip but converted to hydraulic with a single center mounted ram. It has a front mounted pump. Up and down work fine but when I move the bucket the motor loads down and something whines. A dowel and an ear later the sound is loudest at the front of the spool (the side furthest from the handle). I took the valve apart from what I can see its fine. No grooves in the body or piston it's an energy valve BTW. I removed the lines from the ram and figured I would try to extend it manually. I couldn't do it would not even budge. Is this typical or might this be my problem? |
The description sounds like the over pressure relief in the valve is popping off. One or two bucket cylinders? If two are they plumbed together properly? You wouldn't by chance have them conneected opposite each other? I would think that would stall the bucket com[letely but you never know....
You should be able to move the cylinder rod(s) in/out with very minimal resistance if both ports are disconnected. If you can't move them the cylinder(s) may well be the source of your over pressure.
TOH
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ARCO petee
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Whining spool valve. |
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Thanks for the thought
Single cylinder on the bucket so even as creative I am messing stuff up I think the plumbing is ok.
Any thoughts as to what to look for when I pop the ram apart. Warnings stuff that might fly into dark corners of the garage etc?
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old
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Location: Lake of the Ozarks area of MO
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Whining spool valve. |
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Sounds like the cylinder piston rod is bent which can happen if the engineering of the bucket cylinder was poorly done. Once that rod gets bent it will lock the cylinder up so you can not extend it with hyds and can be a real bear to ever extend with out taking the cylinder apart and even then can be very hard to do
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ARCO petee
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Whining spool valve. |
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| old wrote: | | (quoted from post at 10:42:27 10/27/12) Sounds like the cylinder piston rod is bent which can happen if the engineering of the bucket cylinder was poorly done. Once that rod gets bent it will lock the cylinder up so you can not extend it with hyds and can be a real bear to ever extend with out taking the cylinder apart and even then can be very hard to do |
Nice call
I've seen cooked spaghetti noodles that hold their shape better than that rod. Can a shop straighten that or do I need a new one.
Then to figure out why it bent.
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ARCO petee
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Whining spool valve. |
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| ARCO petee wrote: | (quoted from post at 11:46:41 10/27/12) | old wrote: | | (quoted from post at 10:42:27 10/27/12) Sounds like the cylinder piston rod is bent which can happen if the engineering of the bucket cylinder was poorly done. Once that rod gets bent it will lock the cylinder up so you can not extend it with hyds and can be a real bear to ever extend with out taking the cylinder apart and even then can be very hard to do |
Nice call
I've seen cooked spaghetti noodles that hold their shape better than that rod. Can a shop straighten that or do I need a new one.
Then to figure out why it bent. |
Never mind. Just answered my own question. Looks like a bow can be fixed. This is a kink so I guess I'll go shopping for a 18" x 3" bore double acting super duper pooper scooper.
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old
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Whining spool valve. |
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Pretty common size cylinder I probably have 3 plus of them laying around but then I do have a good number of them on hand. Before I would even think about putting another one on I would look things over extra good to see where it hangs up and causes it to bend. I have snapped those rod in to because of not having the correct cylinder or poor engineering
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ARCO petee
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Whining spool valve. |
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| old wrote: | | (quoted from post at 12:59:46 10/27/12) Pretty common size cylinder I probably have 3 plus of them laying around but then I do have a good number of them on hand. Before I would even think about putting another one on I would look things over extra good to see where it hangs up and causes it to bend. I have snapped those rod in to because of not having the correct cylinder or poor engineering |
It was whining when I got the tractor I know the PO was digging ditches in sandy loam with the 6 foot snow bucket on. I'm hopeful the extra forces in pushing that huge amount o soil did the rod in. I've already checked to be sure neither the rod or case make contact with the loader frame beyond that I'm not sure what besides abuse would bend the rod. Open to hints.
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TheOldHokie
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Whining spool valve. |
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| ARCO petee wrote: | (quoted from post at 17:42:05 10/27/12) | old wrote: | | (quoted from post at 12:59:46 10/27/12) Pretty common size cylinder I probably have 3 plus of them laying around but then I do have a good number of them on hand. Before I would even think about putting another one on I would look things over extra good to see where it hangs up and causes it to bend. I have snapped those rod in to because of not having the correct cylinder or poor engineering |
It was whining when I got the tractor I know the PO was digging ditches in sandy loam with the 6 foot snow bucket on. I'm hopeful the extra forces in pushing that huge amount o soil did the rod in. I've already checked to be sure neither the rod or case make contact with the loader frame beyond that I'm not sure what besides abuse would bend the rod. Open to hints. |
Simple geometry. The rod needs to be seeing push/pull type forces - not a bending force - when you are pushing against the buicket. Pretty tough to do it wrong on a bucket cylinder.
TOH
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old
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Whining spool valve. |
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As long as the cylinder misses any part of the bucket loader etc and does not bind at any of the pivot points then yes could have been caused by doing things the wrong way
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ZANE
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Whining spool valve. |
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Bad cylinder or hose. I've seen hoses have the inside lining collapse and completely restrict the flow of oil. But if you can't move the cylinder with both hoses off it's got to be the cylinder
Zane
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ARCO petee
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Whining spool valve. |
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| ZANE wrote: | (quoted from post at 17:45:50 10/27/12) Bad cylinder or hose. I've seen hoses have the inside lining collapse and completely restrict the flow of oil. But if you can't move the cylinder with both hoses off it's got to be the cylinder
Zane |
This is exactly the reason I pulled the lines off. My dad had a suburban years ago that if the brakes were used moderately the steering wheel would take all the shoulder strength a guy could muster to hold course. Took a long d
Darn time to figure out that one of the front break hoses had seperated internally. It was like a new truck with new hoses.
If I had not pulled the rod with all my might I would have a fresh set of hoses on now.
I appreciate all the thoughts and hints guys I'm green on engines and barely a sprout with hydraulics.
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ZANE
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Whining spool valve. |
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This really has nothing to do with your problem, but a couple of weeks ago I was putting a really old big Ford loader on a friends 3000 Ford tractor and one of the bucket cylinders had the hoses off for years and water had collected in it and lived there for years so I decided to take it apart to see if I could free it up and hone it etc and save a lot of money for my friend.
I decided to tie it to a big poplar tree with my big 3/8" logging chain and use my old Ford F600 with it's 10,000 pound winch to pull it apart after the end cap was removed. On the first try the old 5/8" cable on the winch parted. I cut off about 10' and then with two heavy snatch blocks I started pulling on the cylinder again and the truck started moving, dragging the chained chocks along with about 6" of sod and dirt. I then tied the heavy pipe front bumper to a Pecan tree about 1' in diameter and started pulling again with the three part cable set up. The rod moved out about an inch and when it did lots of the leaves of the Pecan tree fell off and rained down on the front of the truck. Gritted my teeth and let it keep on pulling. My dog Hobo was behind the big Poplar tree watching me when with a loud bang my 3/8" log chain broke and swung around the tree almost hitting Hobo. He was a blurr going around the shed last time I saw him that day!
The cylinder is lying on the ground beside my shop and one day I am going to try it again and use a Rose budd while pulling to see if can get it apart.
If I had some Nitroglycerin I'd pour some in the port and set it off with a remote device with it about a mile away with it burried in a hole about 10' deep and see if that would get it apart????
I bought a cheap cylinder from Surplus center and finally got the loader fixed and delivered. I made $250 for about a weeks work. I'm doing good!
Hope you have better luck with your cylinder.
Zane
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ARCO petee
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Whining spool valve. |
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| ZANE wrote: | (quoted from post at 07:22:31 10/28/12) This really has nothing to do with your problem, but a couple of weeks ago I was putting a really old big Ford loader on a friends 3000 Ford tractor and one of the bucket cylinders had the hoses off for years and water had collected in it and lived there for years so I decided to take it apart to see if I could free it up and hone it etc and save a lot of money for my friend.
I decided to tie it to a big poplar tree with my big 3/8" logging chain and use my old Ford F600 with it's 10,000 pound winch to pull it apart after the end cap was removed. On the first try the old 5/8" cable on the winch parted. I cut off about 10' and then with two heavy snatch blocks I started pulling on the cylinder again and the truck started moving, dragging the
chained chocks along with about 6" of sod and dirt. I then tied the heavy pipe front bumper to a Pecan tree about 1' in diameter and started pulling again with the three part cable set up. The rod moved out about an inch and when it did lots of the leaves of the Pecan tree fell off and rained down on the front of the truck. Gritted my teeth and let it keep on pulling. My dog Hobo was behind the big Poplar tree watching me when with a loud bang my 3/8" log chain broke and swung around the tree almost hitting Hobo. He was a blurr going around the shed last time I saw him that day!
The cylinder is lying on the ground beside my shop and one day I am going to try it again and use a Rose budd while pulling to see if can get it apart.
If I had some Nitroglycerin I'd pour some in the port and set it off with a remote device with it about a mile away with it burried in a hole about 10' deep and see if that would get it apart????
I bought a cheap cylinder from Surplus center and finally got the loader fixed and delivered. I made $250 for about a weeks work. I'm doing good!
Hope you have better luck with your cylinder.
Zane |
Great story,
I went mostly the same way. I had just drained the cylinder and didn't want to fill it again since it made a mess the first time. I hooked it to the loader and chained it to my Chevy van. Nearly pulled the ford all the way down the driveway with the park brake on in 1 st gear and the back blade down. Eventually I got the cou
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ARCO petee
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Whining spool valve. |
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Darn phone
Any way I got the couple inches I needed to pop the ram apart. The rod was kinked and the cylinder was worn hugely. A testiment to the power of hydraulics.
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