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*N Shutting off


 
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Stephenscity
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:01 pm    Post subject: *N Shutting off Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Strange problem Was moving a couple things around and for no reason just shut off. Resarted right back up and after a couple minutes shut off again. Started right up again. Put it away and just let it run and after a while went to shut off pulled the choke and she kept running. When it shuts down it will fire right back up.
Have no miss but like it has a mind of its own.Not sure where to start. Gas is same as has been in it. Not had any problem till today. Gas is about 1month old.It is like you shut the switch off but when ya choke it it keeps running.Any ideas where I should start looking? Thanks.
Amp meter is maitaining betweem 2-9 amps. Sad Sad
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: *N Shutting off Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It is important for you to tell us if your tractor has a 6 volt or 12 volt electrical system & if the distributor is on the front of the engine or on the side. The troubleshooting is different based upon the configuration of your engine.



It takes three things for an engine to run: spark at the right time, compression, & fuel in the right mixture. For the moment, forget about compression & concentrate on narrowing the problem down to spark or fuel.



There are three very important tools you always need to have in your N tool box: a 3 inch piece of wire w/ alligator clips on each end, an old spark plug w/ the gap opened to at least 3/16Ē ( ľĒ is better) and a 7/16 box end wrench. (see tip # 50 at the link below) And, you really do need a working ammeter on the tractor; it is a very important diagnostic tool. With these tools, you can quickly narrow down most N problems to spark or fuel.



Next time it stops, check quickly for fuel then spark. When I say quickly, I mean get off the seat, grab the tools & do it right then. Do not wait a minute or two. First, check for fuel. Get a can & put it under the carb. Remove the bolt in the bottom of the carb; as long as the fuel is turned on, you should see gas flowing out of the carb. Let it run for at least 30 seconds. If itís a dribble, or runs for 5 seconds & stops, or none at all, you have solved half the problem: itís fuel related. If gas flows well out of the carb & only stops when you turn it off at the sediment bowl, chances are very good itís not a fuel problem. So, next, turn the key on, crank the engine & look at the ammeter. What is the needle doing? Does it show a constant discharge, no movement at all, or does it move back & forth slightly? Next, get the old plug, ground it to a rust & paint free spot on the engine, turn the key on & crank the engine. If the spark jumps the 3/16Ē gap, you probably donít have a spark problem. If it wonít jump the 3/16Ē gap, you have a spark problem. If the ammeter needle shows a constant discharge, or doesnít move at all, that also tells you that you have a spark problem. Jump the ignition switch w/ your jumper wire & see what happens. If it runs, you found the problem. If it doesnít have spark after you jump the ignition switch, post back for more info on further troubleshooting. (and do not forget to turn the ignition switch off; see tip # 38)



If it does not have gas coming out of the carb at a steady stream w/ the bolt out for at least 30 seconds, you have a fuel problem. First, remove the gas cap. Your vent could be clogged & it vacuum locked. If that doesnít work, tap the carb bowl w/ a hammer handle in case the float is sticking closed. (donít whack it w/ the head of the hammer; you can crack the bowl). If you still donít see gas flowing, the N has three fuel screens; one in the brass elbow, one in the top of the sediment bowl & one on the stem of the sediment bowl in the gas tank. Check the screen in the elbow & the screen in the top of the sediment bowl. (donít worry about the one in the tank) Both probably need to be cleaned. If you have the fuel knob turned on all the way, & 1 gallon or less in the tank, it may be trying to feed off of the reserve inlet which is probably clogged. Only open it 2 full turns. Put at least 2 gallons in the tank. (and do not forget to turn the gas off; see tip # 9)



There are ways to check for spark & fuel that work & ways that don't. For example, having gas to the carb is nice, but having it past the float is what counts! Thatís why removing the 7/16Ē bolt in the bottom of the carb is the way to check for fuel. And, same thing w/ spark at the plugs. Some folks think that checking for spark means pulling a plug wire off & looking for one. Well, it's the distance the spark jumps at the plug that gives you the info you want. It takes about 17kv to jump a 3/16" gap & 22kv to jump ľĒ in the open air. Remember, itís 14psi outside of the engine & about 90psi at a 6:1 compression ratio in the cylinders & compressed air creates electrical resistance, so you really need the 17-22kv to fire the plugs when the engine is running. A store bought plug checker will work better than an old plug because it wonít shock the snot out of you like an old plug might!
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Jim in Eastern NC
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: *N Shutting off Reply to specific post Reply with quote

No one can beat Bruce's advice, but mine did that exact thing a few times, and when I pursued the remedies, it was the points that were failing. Replaced, worked fine. Later, I changed to EI and kept the nearly new points for the day when/if the EI goes out. EI does give me much better starting and seems to give a bit more power (may be imagined!).
 
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Stephenscity
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: *N Shutting off Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks a lot of good advise couple quick questions.
First it is the original 6v system with side dist.
Second since it will fail to stall if I pull the choke wouldn't that lean towards fuel and not spark?
Third where do I locate the screen for the reserve?
Thanks
 
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Jim in Eastern NC
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: *N Shutting off Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes, I figured mine initially had to do with fuel, but there was no obstruction to the flow, so the next suspect was points. And it had been several years since they were changed, so I had been expecting it just to quit and stay quit. But it threw me that after an hour or so it would restart for a few minutes.
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: *N Shutting off Reply to specific post Reply with quote

" Second since it will fail to stall if I pull the choke wouldn't that lean towards fuel and not spark?'

No.

Pulling out the choke gives you a richer mixture. So, you could have either a fuel or spark problem. As Jim just said.

But it does not matter what it "might" be. Don't guess. Just check for spark & fuel and eliminate one or the other.

The screens are in the brass elbow and in the top of the sediment bowl.

Be careful removing & re-installing the elbow. Don't honk down on it; it's brass. First, use a flare wrench to remove the fitting. (as in the picture) Next, if you do not have another fitting to screw into the elbow (as in the picture) then use a crescent wrench on the top & bottom (NOT the sides) of the elbow to remove it. Otherwise, you will distort it & you will never get the fuel line fitting back into it.


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old
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: *N Shutting off Reply to specific post Reply with quote

One like that can be a bear to figure out since it could be a simple loose wire or a bad ignition switch or a simple piece of junk in the gas tank. Check that all ignition wires at the switch the coil and the distributor are tight and clean.
 
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Dell (WA)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: *N Shutting off Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Stephencity........while it could be yer carb gas stopping-up, more likely ittz'chur weaksister ignition switch. ($15, cheap) Bad condensers have about 1-min of runtime which does NOT match yer complaint. When you turn-off yer switch, you re-set the burned contacts for good continuity and re-start. One summer, I replace the ignition switch 3-times before I got gryped and bought a 25-amp marine grade waterproof toggle switch. Keys, who needs them? .......Dell, eazy starting 6-volt 52-8N
 
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Stephenscity
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:21 pm    Post subject: Re: *N Shutting off Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for all the input. Hate problems that won't stay broke!!!!
 
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Stephenscity
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: *N Shutting off Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Think I got it!! Pulled the drain on the car to make sure no sediment there,Opened the gas back up and there seemed to only be a light stream,pumped the gas out and pulled the sed bowel assembly cleaned it put back on and put couple gal of gas in she ran good for a hr or so with not a sputter. There was only a gal of gas in her so was on reserve. Not sure if the reserve port was restricted or what.Hope thats it but guess only time will tell for sure.
Thanks for all the input' Not sure either how low on gas it will pu.
 
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ASEguy
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: *N Shutting off Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Oddly enough my 8N started doing the same thing last weekend. When I checked it out, I was losing voltage through the ignition switch. Check the voltage coming from the ignition switch while you wiggle the key up and down and side to side. My switch was replaced by me once and has very few hours on it. I'm tempted to do Dell's repair and put in a marine grade toggle switch. I bought my switch from a reputable source. I guess I just got a bad one. Gerard
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: *N Shutting off Reply to specific post Reply with quote

" and put in a marine grade toggle switch."

I wouldn't.

Too easy to get turned on by mistake. And left on.

You can find a heavy duty key switch that will fit w/ a little bit of help from a parts clerk.
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ASEguy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:48 am    Post subject: Re: *N Shutting off Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That's another good reason to be only tempted. I've got two grandson's that are very active.
 
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