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Lift questions


 
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ASEguy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:55 am    Post subject: Lift questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

According to the previous owner of my 8n, the three point was rarely, if ever, used. Yesterday after replacing the ignition switch with a Standard switch I drove it around for about a one hour without dying. I raised the hitch and backed up to my blade only to find it didn't lower. I know these are gravity down, so how long do I have to wait before they lower. The control handle is down now. Thanks for your time. Gerard
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:04 am    Post subject: Re: Lift questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

ASEguy wrote:
(quoted from post at 08:55:26 11/05/12) According to the previous owner of my 8n, the three point was rarely, if ever, used. Yesterday after replacing the ignition switch with a Standard switch I drove it around for about a one hour without dying. I raised the hitch and backed up to my blade only to find it didn't lower. I know these are gravity down, so how long do I have to wait before they lower. The control handle is down now. Thanks for your time. Gerard
Immediately. If temperature were zero, then thick oil might require hand or foot pressure to help a little.
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:06 am    Post subject: Re: Lift questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

As a rule of thumb for an 8N, it's probably a sticky exhaust valve. Remove the inspection plate w/ the dipstick, reach in & push the control rod to the rear. If the lift drops, you found the problem.

This is a classic symptom of a dirty pump.

You should clean out the pump sump & change the fluid. Check out tips 3 & 4 below.

There are two ways to clean the pump; the “quick clean” that gets a lot of the sludge out of it, & the right way that gets all of it, including the hard packed crud in the pump base.

For the quick clean, after you get the old fluid drained out (overnight is best) remove both inspection plates & start pulling the sludge in the pump base out by hand. Then, get a couple of gallons of kerosene or diesel fuel & pour it into the pump base. Catch it in a bucket & reuse it. (Some folks use a hand garden sprayer.) Flush the pump base out 5 or 6 times. Do not start the engine to run the kerosene through the pump; kerosene and diesel fuel do not have sufficient lubrication properties for a 60 year old hydraulic pump designed to be immersed in 90w gear oil. Some folks say it’s ok to start the engine, engage the pump for a minute or two, then turn the engine off. Your call on that one.

This 'quick-clean' is not as effective as dropping the pump & doing a full job. But if the choice is between doing nothing & the quick clean, spray it out. It worked for me for 3 years on my 1951 N. If you have the time, drop the pump; that is the right way to do it. I’ve done it both ways & don’t plan on doing the quick clean again. That’s because dropping the pump is not a big deal. If you have hard packed crud in the pump base, you are wasting your time w/ the "quick clean".

With all of the fluid drained out, block the front wheels & get the rear wheels up at least a foot. (you'll see why soon enough) Remove the 4 bolts holding the PTO shaft in & pull it to the rear & out of the tractor. Loosen all of the bolts. Remove all but 2 corner bolts. Then, carefully remove them. If you are lucky, the pump will drop free (and dump a pint or so of hydraulic fluid down your sleeves). If not, wrestle it free. The pump has 'ears' that fit into the housing; wiggle it a bit & it will drop free. If you have the rear tires a foot or more off of the ground, you will have enough arm room to hold the pump & lower it at the same time. Put it on your work bench & remove the safety valve (p/n 638) and the control arm lever (p/n 643) which will allow you to remove the intake & exhaust valves (p/n’s 640 & 698) Drop all of it in a bucket of diesel (or mineral spirits) or your parts washer & let it soak overnight. Once it has a good soaking, get it on the bench & start blowing it out w/ compressed air. Run cleaning fluid into the hydraulic discharge near the test port & make sure you get a good flow out the small hole in the side of the pump were the control valve fits. I don't see much need to pull it down any further just to clean it. But, I always replace the safety valve (p/n 638, about $25) Reinstalling the pump is harder than pulling it out because you have a gasket to worry about. (no sealer on the gasket) And, you will probably need a helper to guide the control rod into the pump rocker shaft unless you’ve done this 6 or 7 times before!

While you have the PTO shaft out, it would be a good time to replace the seal on it. It's got two spring clamps around it. Take your needle nose pliers & remove the one in the front. Then, hang the shaft & bearing housing in your vice & tap the butt end of the shaft; the bearing cap will come off (and the shaft will land on your foot). Then, remove the other spring clip from the other side of the bearing. At this point, remember that you never bought a seal driver & go get a BF socket & drive the seal out. If you have the new style seal, the white side goes out. (open side to the oil) Put some grease on it.

Contrary to conventional wisdom, not a lot of water gets in the oil from the shifter boot. Of course, if it's bad, replace it, but you get water from the draft control spring & the dipstick. But, most water is just a byproduct of the heating/cooling cycle of the oil.

You’ll need a pump gasket, safety valve, inspection plate gasket(s), PTO seal, PTO gasket, gasket sealer & 5 gallons of fluid to do all of the above.
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souNdguy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:58 am    Post subject: Re: Lift questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

besides cold oil or a sticky exhaust.. it might be simply rust stuck.

IE. the rockshaft may have coroded a bit in the bores and just turn hard. as jomr said. might take some pressure to get it to move.

see what's up and post us back
 
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HCooke
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: Lift questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a '51 that occasionally stick with the lift up. Try raising the control lever all the way up and the immediately lowering it. That's how I unstick mine.
 
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old
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: Lift questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

With no weight on it and if it has say the 90W oil and being cool as it has been it can take a long time to go down on its own. That said you should be able to step on one of the arms and push it down and if you can not then you have a problem if you can then no problem. Do not know what your temp are up by St Louis but yesterday morning here is was 20 out
 
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ASEguy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Lift questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Pretty cold here Rich, lower 30's. Harold, I reluctantly stood on the arms and raised and lowered the control lever and nothing happened. They have moved some though because the chains are looser. Chris and Jesse, When I bought the tractor the lift arms flopped back down after raising w/o the tractor running so I guess that rules out rockshaft binding. So I'm left with Bruce's diagnosis which is a stuck exhaust valve. Bruce, I won't do it halfway, so dropping the pump is in my near future. I suppose after I remove the bolts after the tractor is jacked up I'll just use a floor jack as a buddy to lower it. Thank you for all the replies. The good news out of this is the pump lift cylinder appears to be sealing well. This continues to be a learning experience which is why I enjoy old tractors. Gerard
 
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HCooke
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Lift questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Call me if you have any problems. I've done a couple of these. Can be done easily on a Saturday. No gasket sealer on the bottom gasket. Get a big bucket to drain the oil before you remove the PTO shaft. Good time to look at that seal.
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Lift questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

As Harold said, it's not a major project. I make it an overnight job because I like to soak the pump. I tried a floor jack once, but it's easier for me to just lay on my back & pull it out.
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HCooke
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Lift questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I agree that you can get it out and in without a jack. (And I am a upper body weakling.)
 
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Hobo,NC
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Lift questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

ASEguy wrote:
(quoted from post at 16:55:26 11/05/12) According to the previous owner of my 8n, the three point was rarely, if ever, used. Yesterday after replacing the ignition switch with a Standard switch I drove it around for about a one hour without dying. I raised the hitch and backed up to my blade only to find it didn't lower. I know these are gravity down, so how long do I have to wait before they lower. The control handle is down now. Thanks for your time. Gerard


With you hand make sure the control valve is moving at the pump...

If not use a pry bar to make it move.... It may be all you need...
I have had one to stick closed after I spent mega bucks rebuild'n the hydraulics after a pry'n it open its never stuck again....

Unless it continues to stick are if you want a challenge leave IT BE THAT IS IF YOU GET IT TO LOWER I have had some mean ones but always won...... Even cold if you push on the lift arms it should lower... Fore go the jack it will only be in your way (if you go their).... Car ramps will be your friend....





http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=346622&highlight=ramps

When I remove a pump I either jack the tractor up and put it on stands or the way I like to do it izz drive the rear wheels up on car ramps, block the wheels then roll under it and remove the pump no jack needed. You will git a little fluid on ya. When you raise the tractor up that gives you the leverage needed to handle the pump. If you do not jack it up then it’s a fight cuzz you kin not git in the rite position to handle the pump. I usually install the top cover and then install the pump, front of the pump goes up and in over the ears of the PTO support and then the rear of the pump goes up add a bolt or 2 at the front of the pump and use one hand to guide the position lever in and push up on the rear and install a bolt in the rear. I have also got good at install’in the lift cover by myself and it does not really make much difference how I install the parts cept its E-Zee’er on my back to install the lift cover first then the pump “8N ONLY”

Its not bad to install the cover last,,,, install the floor boards,,, set the lift cover on the rear of the tractor,,, straddle the center of the tractor and set the lift cover down “tip use 2 line up studs in the front 2 holes to keep the gasket in place and align the cover’’’ Now that the cover is on stand at the rear and lift up the back of the cover and align the position control rod to the pump,,, set the cover down and nail it….

DO Not stand at the rear of the tractor when check’n for hydraulic operation,,,, a spin’n PTO takes on all comers

http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=357245&highlight=pump
 
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heybusdriver
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Lift questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I agree, it is easier for me just get underneath and remove having a small wood block so it doesn't fall on concrete,When lifting it back in,push up hold it with one hand and place 2 bolts loosely in, crawl out put lever in slot.

Stan
2N with 8N motor 8N345567
8N 146710
8N 179555
8N 197904
8N 199000
8N 254079
8N 362039
 
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ASEguy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:15 am    Post subject: Re: Lift questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for your input Hobo.
 
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ASEguy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:16 am    Post subject: Re: Lift questions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for the offer Harold.
 
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