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heybusdriver
Long Time User
Joined: 25 Nov 2000
Posts: 817
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada
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 Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:54 pm Post subject: Any-one have a Howard |
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Any-one on here have a Howard transmission on their "N" tractors? According to John Smith website they are very fragile , can any-one tell me anything different than John's information? I know they are very rare , a tractor buddy has one on his 2N , same tractor combination Sherman . Any and all info would be appreciated, thanks
Stan
2N with 8N motor 8N345567
8N 146710
8N 179555
8N 197904
8N 199000
8N 254079
8N 362039
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Pitch1
Regular
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:28 am Post subject: Re: Any-one have a Howard |
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A Howard was built for one reason only, To reduce ground speed,while maintaining pto speed on the rotovator.
It is NOT a super low granny gear for pulling. Traction use will break a Howard every time.
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TheOldHokie
Tractor Guru
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 5869
Location: Myersville, MD
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:51 am Post subject: Re: Any-one have a Howard |
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| heybusdriver wrote: | (quoted from post at 02:54:33 11/08/12) Any-one on here have a Howard transmission on their "N" tractors? According to John Smith website they are very fragile , can any-one tell me anything different than John's information? I know they are very rare , a tractor buddy has one on his 2N , same tractor combination Sherman . Any and all info would be appreciated, thanks
Stan
2N with 8N motor 8N345567
8N 146710
8N 179555
8N 197904
8N 199000
8N 254079
8N 362039 |
While I have never owned or used one I have spent some considerable time looking at the design and I am not convinced the gearing is "fragile" per se. The basic construction is quite stout with several big honkin' 6 DP straight cut reduction spur gears. Those are some heavy gears capable of trasmitting significant loads!!! The units are however quite prone to gear teeth stripping failures likely caused by a poor shifting design that allows the reduction gears to disengage under load stripping the teeth in the process. Here is a picture of showing what the Howard reduction mechanism looks like. The picture is taken from what would be the top looking down. The heavy plate at the top would be bolted to the back of teh tractor transmssion.
The smaller spur gear at the center top is is the Howard input gear which is splined to the transmsiion output shaft. The compund gear that engages the input gear is one of two identical reduction gears - a second one is similalrly mounted on the underside of the input gear. The reduction gears are rigidly mounted between the nearly 3/4" thick case halves on stout ball bearings and 1" shafts. The large gear in the bottom center is the Howard output gear which is mounted on the pinion drive shaft and engages both of the smaller reduction spur gears. The input gear drives the larger spur gears on the reduction clusters which then drive the output gear via the smaller compound spur gears resulting in an overall reduction ratio of 3.5:1 at the rear axle.
The Howard output gear is splined to the pinion drive shaft and can be shifted into direct drive by sliding it upward in the picture. This disengages the external spur gear from both of the compund reduction gears and an internal gear cut into the face of the output gear slips over the input gear directly locking the pinion drive shaft to the transmission output shaft with a resulting 1:1 drive ratio. The compund reduction gears simply turn with no load when the gearbox is in direct drive.
Looking at the picture you can see the typical failure - the smaller reduction gear teeth and the mating teeth on the pinion drive gear are eroded along the inner edges. That pattern indicates to me that the teeth failed with the gears in partial mesh. Possibly from someone trying to shift them into engagenment with the tractor in motion. However I suspect a more likely cause is the shifter detent allowing the gears to come partially or fully out of mesh under a heavy load stripping the trailing edges of teh teeth in the process. So my take is the real design flaw is the shifter detent mechanism - not the actual gear sets.
TOH
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Bob Harvey
Tractor Guru
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 4170
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Any-one have a Howard |
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Hey Stan, I have a small Howard Rotovator that came with my 2N. Think your pal might be interested ?
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heybusdriver
Long Time User
Joined: 25 Nov 2000
Posts: 817
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Any-one have a Howard |
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Bob, what kind of money would you be looking for it? What size and what price ?Chances are I will be to buy the tractor complete as described, cheap.
Stan
2N with 8N motor 8N345567
8N 146710
8N 179555
8N 197904
8N 199000
8N 254079
8N 362039
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Vito
Tractor Guru
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 5670
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Any-one have a Howard |
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Bob,
I might be depending on price and location.Email is open.
Vito
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Vito
Tractor Guru
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 5670
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Any-one have a Howard |
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My 1948 8N has one.Not abused they are fine.
Vito
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heybusdriver
Long Time User
Joined: 25 Nov 2000
Posts: 817
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Any-one have a Howard |
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Vito , where are you located? I am in the Vancouver Canada region , so is Bob , he is located about an or or so from me. I don't know if I would be interested , I'm not a gardener and don't intend on being one( too much work for me)
Stan
2N with 8N motor 8N345567
8N 146710
8N 179555
8N 197904
8N 199000
8N 254079
8N 362039
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John in Mich
Regular
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Any-one have a Howard |
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I have an 8N with a Howard. Unfortunately, it does jump out of gear when put in low range. I have not actually looked inside but suspect that the gear tooth wear is as shown in the pictures below.
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Vito
Tractor Guru
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 5670
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Any-one have a Howard |
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Stan,
Ashford,CT .It would be a pretty long ride!
Vito
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AJ-in-BC
Regular
Joined: 26 Oct 2012
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Any-one have a Howard |
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Bob Harvey, I would be interested in the Rotovator if you are selling it.
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