Tractor   
 Parts
We have the parts you need to repair your tractor.  Click Here or call 800-853-2651
Yesterday's Tractors

   Allis Chalmers Case Cockshutt Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   H. Ferguson John Deere Massey Minn. Moline Oliver All The Rest

Marketplace
Tractor Manuals
Tractor Parts
Classified Ads
Photo Ads

Shop for Parts:

Community
Discussion Forums
Project Journal
Tractor Town
Your Stories
Show & Pull Guide
Events Calendar
Hauling Schedule

Galleries
Tractor Photos
Implement Photos
Vintage Photos
Help Identify
Parts & Pieces
Stuck & Troubled
Vintage Ads
Community Album
Photo Ad Archives

Research & Info
Articles
Tractor Registry
Tip of the Day
Safety Cartoons
Tractor Values
List Prices
Production Nbrs
Tune-Up Specs
Serial Numbers
Tune-Up Guide
3-Point Specs
Paint Codes
Glossary

Miscellaneous
Tractor Games
Just For Kids
Virtual Show
Museum Guide
Memorial Page
Feedback Form

Related Sites
The Tractor Shed
TractorLinks.com
Ford N-Series Club
Garden Tractors
Today's Tractors
Classic Trucks
Kountry Life

Enter your email address to receive our newsletter!
subscribe
unsubscribe

Content Guide
Picture List - TOC
Ad Archives - TOC
Manuals - TOC

 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Traditional YT Forum ViewClassic View   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

This is the modern view of the Yesterday's Tractors Forums. Just login with your YT Userid and password to post. If you have trouble logging in, contact us by email to support at ytmag.com, or through the Reader Form, and we will get you going right away.

Proper compression on 1950 John Deere B

 
Post new topic    Yesterday's Tractors Forum Index -> John Deere
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
CubBoy125
New User


Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 11


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: Proper compression on 1950 John Deere B Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I recently purchased a 1950 John Deere B. It has smoke coming from the clutch assembly and I was informed that there could be two things causing this. Either the vent pump on the fan shaft isn"t working or I have blow by from the pistons. I checked the compression and I get 60psi on each cylinder. From what I have read the "All Fuel" engines should be around 70psi and the regular gas models should be 110 psi. My tractor only has one fuel tank and nowhere does it say "All Fuel". Is it possible for the compression to only be half of what it should be if my tractor is not an All Fuel? It runs well with no smoke other than white smoke coming from the clutch pulley. I have the head off now and I will do rings if needed, but I don"t want to open a can of worms making repairs if I don"t have to. Any suggestions???
 
Back to top
View user's profile
F-I-T
Tractor Guru


Joined: 27 Feb 2002
Posts: 8447
Location: United States

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Proper compression on 1950 John Deere B Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CubBoy125 wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:16:22 11/10/12) I recently purchased a 1950 John Deere B. It has smoke coming from the clutch assembly and I was informed that there could be two things causing this. Either the vent pump on the fan shaft isn"t working or I have blow by from the pistons. I checked the compression and I get 60psi on each cylinder. From what I have read the "All Fuel" engines should be around 70psi and the regular gas models should be 110 psi. My tractor only has one fuel tank and nowhere does it say "All Fuel". Is it possible for the compression to only be half of what it should be if my tractor is not an All Fuel? It runs well with no smoke other than white smoke coming from the clutch pulley. I have the head off now and I will do rings if needed, but I don"t want to open a can of worms making repairs if I don"t have to. Any suggestions???


Can you turn on piston to TDC and take a photo? That would go a long way in identifying if it has gas or all fuel pistons in it.

It probably does need at minimum a good honing and rings. Probably valves as well, as this is a great place to develop low compression. The vent pump can be problematic. If it is acting up and it was still together, removing the oil fill cap and holding a playing card over the fill pipe will show how much it is puffing. A properly functioning vent pump would pull the card onto the fill pipe. A good vent pump can move quite a bit of blow-by, but even a good pump cannot keep up with extreme wear.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
thesmoothedeere
Long Time User


Joined: 04 Aug 2010
Posts: 598


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Proper compression on 1950 John Deere B Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Not to hijack you Fit ... But did you make it to China yet ? I would like to see some photos if you took any . I know you spoke of this trip just not sure when you were going . Thanks.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
F-I-T
Tractor Guru


Joined: 27 Feb 2002
Posts: 8447
Location: United States

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Proper compression on 1950 John Deere B Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thesmoothedeere wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:40:27 11/10/12) Not to hijack you Fit ... But did you make it to China yet ? I would like to see some photos if you took any . I know you spoke of this trip just not sure when you were going . Thanks.


Yes, been there done that. Left Sep. 20th, returned Oct. 14th. I took most of the photos, so not many of me. Very interesting trip. Very enlightening. Folks around the world seem to me to be very much like us. They just want to get to their jobs, then get home at night for dinner with the family. Not censored much at all. Maybe a few web pages, but they alias out to European sites and everyone know the kids do it. Everyone gripes about the government pretty openly, so it seemed like a retirement community in West Palm. Couldn't get CNN page on the web, but it was on the cable TV, and they carried our debates live, so go figure.

Long trip with little sports news. Got so bad I learned to score cricket....

This one is me, and yes, I did climb up to the top of that section of the Great Wall.




Then I bought a hat at the Great Mall of China....





And this is the only Deere I saw in China. Lots of Buicks, but not many JD's...


 


Last edited by F-I-T on Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile
craigco
Regular


Joined: 26 Jun 2011
Posts: 86


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:33 am    Post subject: Re: Proper compression on 1950 John Deere B Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Did you check your compression with the choke open and at full throttle? 60psi seems like the throttle wasn't opened.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
CubBoy125
New User


Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 11


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Proper compression on 1950 John Deere B Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I never did think to check it with a card before dissembling the tractor. I did notice that when I removed the oil filler cap when running the tractor the smoke stopped coming out of the clutch and came up through through the filler tube. I removed the pistons and they have quite a deep concave surface.

 
Back to top
View user's profile
CubBoy125
New User


Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 11


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Proper compression on 1950 John Deere B Reply to specific post Reply with quote


You know that is a good question. I may have not had the throttle opened up all of the way. How much of an effect would that have on a compression test? Sorry, I am new to these tractors.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
F-I-T
Tractor Guru


Joined: 27 Feb 2002
Posts: 8447
Location: United States

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Proper compression on 1950 John Deere B Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CubBoy125 wrote:
(quoted from post at 20:41:32 11/11/12)
You know that is a good question. I may have not had the throttle opened up all of the way. How much of an effect would that have on a compression test? Sorry, I am new to these tractors.


Same effect as on any engine, not just a Deere two cylinder. Lawn mower engine, airplane engine, any piston engine. If you restrict the cross sectional area of the intake by X%, you'll reduce the gas mass in the cylinder so it fills at less than atmosphere, so the compressed pressure will be less. Common reason for low compression results on other wise good running engines.

FSB #160-S stated the "new" Gasline pistons for the "B" have 5 rings grooves as compared to the All-Fuel pistons which have four grooves. All-Fuel pistons should also be stamped "TOP" on the skirt for orientation, while gas pistons should be stamped "TOP-G".
 


Last edited by F-I-T on Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
buickanddeere
Tractor Guru


Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 23624
Location: in front of computer

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: Proper compression on 1950 John Deere B Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Just install a set of model 50 LP pistons. Given the age,
hours and how cheap the machine work is. Have the cam and
followers reground. Measure the valve spring pressure, valve
stem to guide wear and exhaust seats.
Your B will feel like an A.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
CubBoy125
New User


Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 11


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Proper compression on 1950 John Deere B Reply to specific post Reply with quote


From the information you provided me I was able to confirm the pistons in my tractor are indeed "gas" pistons. I also checked the position of the throttle lever on the column (which has not been moved since the compression check) and discovered it was at about half throttle. Makes since because it was slowly backed into the shop before being torn down. I am assuming because of this my compression reading is not quite accurate. I plan on installing new piston rings and removing the valves and checking the seats. If they appear to be in spec I will just lap them with grinding compound and put them back in. I see there are several brands of piston rings to choose from. Any suggested brands I should look for or avoid?
 
Back to top
View user's profile
buickanddeere
Tractor Guru


Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 23624
Location: in front of computer

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Proper compression on 1950 John Deere B Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The old suction cup on a stick with lapping
compound is a waste of time.
The valve sealing is very briefly improved.
It should not bankrupt an owner of a B to pay a
machine shop to grind the valves and seats. New
guides too if required.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
buickanddeere
Tractor Guru


Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 23624
Location: in front of computer

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: Proper compression on 1950 John Deere B Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Know anybody around with a set of used standard bore 50
pistons? They will help make up for the extra blow by when
installing round rings and pistons in an egg shaped bore.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
CubBoy125
New User


Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 11


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Proper compression on 1950 John Deere B Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I will toss a bore gauge on it this week. If it is out of round I will just go to over sized pistons and rings. Had work done at a local machine shop in town for other engines with great results. I may bring the head and valves over that way. No point in cutting corners this far in.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Yesterday's Tractors Forum Index -> John Deere All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Discount Prices for Parts! You can help support this extensive website by purchasing your tractor parts, manuals and merchandise from our [ Antique Tractor Store ] or call our friendly sales staff toll free (800) 853-2651. [ More Info ]

YT Home | Tractor Manuals | Tractor Parts | Forum Home

Copyright © 1997-2013 Yesterday's Tractor Co. - A Washington State Corporation

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters