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Blocked cracked by starter, any way to fix?

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ruger1
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:51 am    Post subject: Blocked cracked by starter, any way to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I installed a new 12v conversion on my TO30 yesterday and when i went to start it i heard a strange noise from the starter and decided to take it off and have a look. The picture shows what i found. The starter caused the block to crack near the lower mounting hole and there is now a hairline crack near the upper mounting hole also. Is there a way to fix this? does anyone know what caused this?

This is a brand new starter that was installed a few weeks ago. A few of the teeth are broken off of the starter gear. I had to buy a new starter because the same thing happened to my old one except that the whole nose cone and teeth were broken off of that one.
 


Last edited by ruger1 on Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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VTParts
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:04 am    Post subject: Re: Blocked cracked by starter, any way to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a good block if you need it with pistons included.

$500

802-782-2409
 
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Uncle Ernie
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:35 am    Post subject: Re: Blocked cracked by starter, any way to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That is what we call in the industry a "Bad Thing"!
Drill and tap from the side to install a bolt to reinforce across the crack then grind out and weld up the crack.
A shame that happened. Wrong starter? or is the flywheel bent, out of round?? Odd failure to my thinking!
 
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trac
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:50 am    Post subject: Re: Blocked cracked by starter, any way to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm thinking the timing is off for it to kick back like that way off. Yeah you can weld cast iron i use a stainless steel welding rod with good results. I would think you can take it and have it done with no worries.
 
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retired farmer
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:06 am    Post subject: Re: Blocked cracked by starter, any way to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sounds like a bad ring gear or maybe the bolts on the flywheel are coming loose.
 
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PackardV8
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:08 am    Post subject: Re: Blocked cracked by starter, any way to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Based on your explanation:

The LOWER crack is what caused the upper crack. OR to put it another way: had the lower crack not existed then the upper crack would have never happened. NOT visa-versa either.

SO does the "brand new starter" fit the round recess just fine or was it a very tite fit????? Is there an obstruction inside of the transmission housing that is causing the nose cone to bind????

Cracking the block like that is rather odd. Usualy if there is any binding when trying to fit a starter then the mounting ears of a starter will break off before any part of the block will crack break.

Did the engine backfire real hard when this happened???? U made no mention of a backfire.

ALSO. In the pic the bolt is still in the UPPER hole. Therefore are we to assume that the upper hole is not cracked both sides of the hole like the lower hole is cracked both sides.
 


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PackardV8
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:15 am    Post subject: Re: Blocked cracked by starter, any way to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Difficult to tell from pic but if the ring gear on flywheel is bad then that can cuse the problem.
 
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: Blocked cracked by starter, any way to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Over the years i've seen a number of starter bendix gears that split or broke completely in half. Never saw one where a tooth or teeth just broke off. Sounde like the gear is just weak production. It happens.
 
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Bruce(OR)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: Blocked cracked by starter, any way to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

In my ignorance, I would tend to suspect you need to remove the engine to inspect clearances. Especially when mounting the starter. What is the clearance between the starter drive and the flywhhel when engaged? Then I might be sorely tempted to mount studs to hold the starter in place. As this is also a cast iron block you might need to find an oven and a welder who knows what they ae doing. The fun part is not the heating of the block to weld it properly, the cooling is what is more critical.
Now if not possible to get this done for under $250, the $500 block below becomes a good deal.
But you still get to mount your starter and check clearances. Unless you like repeat performances. . .
 
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ruger1
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: Blocked cracked by starter, any way to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There was no binding when installing the starter either time. The upper hole is not cracked on both sides like the lower hole, i actually only noticed the crack with the flash from the camera. The engine did not backfire when this happened. I had the engine running a few hours before this happened and it ran fine. I was going to let it run for a while since the tractor had been sitting for a while when this happened.
 
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ruger1
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: Blocked cracked by starter, any way to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bruce(OR) wrote:
(quoted from post at 15:29:03 11/12/12) In my ignorance, I would tend to suspect you need to remove the engine to inspect clearances. Especially when mounting the starter. What is the clearance between the starter drive and the flywhhel when engaged? Then I might be sorely tempted to mount studs to hold the starter in place. As this is also a cast iron block you might need to find an oven and a welder who knows what they ae doing. The fun part is not the heating of the block to weld it properly, the cooling is what is more critical.
Now if not possible to get this done for under $250, the $500 block below becomes a good deal.
But you still get to mount your starter and check clearances. Unless you like repeat performances. . .


I dont have any idea what the clearances are, i just installed the starter and drove it. The odd thing is that i have started the tractor a bunch of times and it always started and ran fine and then all of sudden this happens.
Im not sure what i am going to do at this point. Iim not too sure i want to mess around with splitting the tractor and installing a different block. I dont think i have anyone in my area that can weld this up the correct way. I may just decide to part the tractor out at this point.
 
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ruger1
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:52 am    Post subject: Re: Blocked cracked by starter, any way to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Uncle Ernie wrote:
(quoted from post at 14:35:33 11/12/12) That is what we call in the industry a "Bad Thing"!
Drill and tap from the side to install a bolt to reinforce across the crack then grind out and weld up the crack.
A shame that happened. Wrong starter? or is the flywheel bent, out of round?? Odd failure to my thinking!


The first time the starter gear and nose cone blew up it was the original starter from what i could tell. This new starter was the correct one. Im thinking it must be the flywheel but would a bent flywheel allow the tractor to start just fine say 50 times and then have this happen?
 
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John(UK)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: Blocked cracked by starter, any way to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you have fitted a new or different starter, this could be the problem. On the original starter there was a lip all the way around the face where it sits in the hole for the starter in the block. If this lip is wrong dimensions, it would cause your problem, compare it with the original starter.
With the starter not mounting correctly, it will not mate up with the block properly and will be mounted at an angle instead of square-on to the Block. The lip was to provide support for the starter and take the load off the bolts.It would also be the cause of damage to the teeth on the Ring Gear...John(UK)....fergusontractors@hotmail.com
 
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ruger1
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:28 am    Post subject: Re: Blocked cracked by starter, any way to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

[quote="John(UK)"](quoted from post at 16:05:18 11/12/12) If you have fitted a new or different starter, this could be the problem. On the original starter there was a lip all the way around the face where it sits in the hole for the starter in the block. If this lip is wrong dimensions, it would cause your problem, compare it with the original starter.
With the starter not mounting correctly, it will not mate up with the block properly and will be mounted at an angle instead of square-on to the Block. The lip was to provide support for the starter and take the load off the bolts.It would also be the cause of damage to the teeth on the Ring Gear...John(UK)....fergusontractors@hotmail.com[/quote

Here are a couple of pictures. The new starter does have the lip that you mentioned on it although it appears to be a little more pronounced than the original. I really dont know much about tractors but the picture of the flywheel shows wear on the front of every tooth, there doesnt weem to be any wear between the teeth. Is this normal? The third picture is of the new starter teeth that were broken.
 
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ruger1
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: Blocked cracked by starter, any way to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


 
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