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Another cast welding question

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BigTone
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:49 am    Post subject: Another cast welding question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Can the crack in the housing be welded from just the outside or does it need to be done on the inside as well as the outside or does it simply depend on the circumstances?

I would much rather bring him the whole tractor rather than just the empty rear end, this way I can just pull the trans cover in the garage to fix the tranny/TA, etc...thanks guys, ~Anthony
 
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mike1972chev
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:57 am    Post subject: Re: Another cast welding question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Where EXACTLY was this crack at???

Do you have a photo of it? MOST repairs I have seen or done were just from the outside.But if it was more of a "STRUCTURAL" ,weight supporting section,I MIGHT consider doing both the inside and outside of the housing. I would need to see a photo of what we are working with.
 
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Dr. Walt
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:10 am    Post subject: Re: Another cast welding question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Mike:

AGREED, might even want to gusset it.
 
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BigTone
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:11 am    Post subject: Re: Another cast welding question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

When I move it this week ill take a picture, it is currently sitting in the barn in which the pigs have taken over so there is a healthy mix of hay and manure, not the best place to crawl under a tractor to take a pic.
 
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sflem849
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:36 am    Post subject: Re: Another cast welding question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

mike1972chev wrote:
(quoted from post at 04:57:49 11/13/12) Where EXACTLY was this crack at???

Do you have a photo of it? MOST repairs I have seen or done were just from the outside.But if it was more of a "STRUCTURAL" ,weight supporting section,I MIGHT consider doing both the inside and outside of the housing. I would need to see a photo of what we are working with.


In his other post it sounded like a ball came out of one the the bearings and got between the bull gear and rear end case. I would ASSUME it is somewhere on the bottom of the bull gear.

He is your required reading material.
http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=961547
 


Last edited by sflem849 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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D Slater
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:04 am    Post subject: Re: Another cast welding question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Problem with just welding on the tractor is the oil in the pores of the cast iron. Hard enough to get clean with a bare housing. That said, there's a lot that are welded. Some okay. some seep, some leak. Some have a sealer added to the weld on the inside. Also some with sealer and a steel plate added on the outside with a lot of bolt holes drilled and tapped to attach it.
 
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mike1972chev
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:06 am    Post subject: Re: Another cast welding question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

With all due respect sflem,I read alot of "we THINK it might be" in that post farther down.(Yea,I read it BEFORE this latest one.)

Correct preparation on the "FRONT end" of the job will sometimes save for EVEN MORE time/effort/money spent on the "back end".

I just dont want to see someone do a half A$$ed repair job,and THEN go back and have to redo everything.

Just sayin Wink
 
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sflem849
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: Another cast welding question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

mike1972chev wrote:
(quoted from post at 06:06:48 11/13/12) With all due respect sflem,I read alot of "we THINK it might be" in that post farther down.(Yea,I read it BEFORE this latest one.)

Correct preparation on the "FRONT end" of the job will sometimes save for EVEN MORE time/effort/money spent on the "back end".

I just dont want to see someone do a half A$$ed repair job,and THEN go back and have to redo everything.

Just sayin Wink


I agree, that is why I put the big assume there. Most I have seen cracked are right on the corner of the housing towards the front.
 
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BigTone
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Another cast welding question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I am doing a great deal of assuming here guys because its not at my house yet, I am looking for advice on what i might be getting myself into, difficulty of the fix, and what should I be talking to my welder about regarding questions/methods/experience etc (but i dont want to insult him either being that i know nothing about this)...I will have pics soon and im sure many more questions about tranny/TA rebuild but getting that crack fixed is #1 on the list. I appreciate all of the advice and responses. ~Anthony
 
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mike1972chev
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: Another cast welding question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Good point also Mr Slater.

A clean,properly perpared surface,That can be TEMPERATURE CONTROLLED before and AFTER the welding process is key.


Ideally,an oven to do the work inside would be wonderfull,but I know this aint fitting inside most ovens ,especially fully assembled.lol .

I have had real good luck doing "barn" repairs using an acetylene torch to heat the work area up before welding and helping to gradually bring down the tempurature afterwards. TOO quick of a cool down period causes problems.But Overheating the work area is also bad. cast will bust if cooled too quickly.(NEVER EVER "quench" with water afterwards.)

I am still curious to see what he is actually needing welded yet.That would help me determine on how to go about it.
 
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mike1972chev
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Another cast welding question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Would love to see actuall photos before I trow more random thoughts out there.


If you have to rebuild TA unit anyway,might be good idea to dis assemble first????

The crack is in the TA housing,correct???

(Here again,"flying blind" right now.)
 
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sflem849
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:15 am    Post subject: Re: Another cast welding question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

NO NO NO!!! This is no longer first on the list!!!!! If you need to do other tranny/TA repairs you DO NOT want to do this first. Like Mike said, you would be best to weld it from the inside AND outside. That would provide the strongest, most leak resistant repair. If you are going to do tranny repairs you will have the top cover off. If you have the top cover off you can EASILY take the axles, diff, and bull gears out and repair it properly.

I don't think anybody answered your stitching question. IIRC that is the process of drilling and screwing many screws/bolts into the crack to make it leak free. If you are going to restore the machine (or maintain a more collectible status) I wouldn't recommend stitching.
 
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the tractor vet
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Another cast welding question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Word to the wise here find a housing that is not pushed thru due to a bearing failure . If one bearing is bad then you can bet your donkey there are others just waiting to come unglude . Same thing happened to a friends S/MTA and it did A fine job on the rear end housing . We used a 400 housing and put his GOOD parts in it and replaced all the bearings and seal. Could i have welded it yes BUT in the welding it would have burnt off the paint inside and we could have had a seeper thru the cast housing , would it be as strong as one not welded no . Is it a big job yes, do you want to do it a gain , probably not.
 
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rustred
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: Another cast welding question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


i am not putting down advise here, but when i need a critical job done i get the advise from a person well experienced in the job at hand. you can have all kind of advise and then the welder comes and looks and says "no problem its done like this" i have helped welders and there's welders and there's WELDERS. i have watched this welder weld cast with cast rod , like engine manifolds with great expertize.your job there is not a problem but you have to consult with the proper man with experience in that field.not all welders specialize in cast. it definitly can be repaired.
 
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AJB-830
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: Another cast welding question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Back in about 1966, I bought an MD that had the rear housing patched, probably because of a bearing failure. It is one of those stiched patches with many bolts/screws. In the 45 years I have owned it, I put about 2000 hrs on it with no problems. It does not leak. So I guess they can be fixed with a patch and last a long time. Al
 
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