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641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc

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RTR
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:57 pm    Post subject: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Trying to get it to start. Just put in new points and condenser. Don't know the gap. Looks visually the same as before. It fires but will not run. I put wires at 1-2-4-3 with 1 on cap towards rear of tractor. Going counterclockwise
 
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LeoinMI
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Gap for points is .25. Firing order is 1-2-4-3 CLOCKWISE starting with #1 at rear of distributor. You need to switch #2 & #3 wires according to how you presently have them connected.
 
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RTR
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thank you so much! I have been searching the forums with my phone all evening in the shop and COULDN"T FIND A THING regarding the firing order and point gap. I guess I didn't know how to use the search cause I'm sure it is on here. I did see ONE post and it said the firing order was CCW with #1 at the front of tractor. hah.


LeoinMI wrote:
(quoted from post at 05:16:12 11/15/12) Gap for points is .25. Firing order is 1-2-4-3 CLOCKWISE starting with #1 at rear of distributor. You need to switch #2 & #3 wires according to how you presently have them connected.

 
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Kurt-NEPA
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Confirmed - Gap is .025", Firing order 1243 Clockwise, Number one to the rear on the dizzy.


 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc Reply to specific post Reply with quote

RTR wrote:
(quoted from post at 20:35:24 11/14/12) Thank you so much! I have been searching the forums with my phone all evening in the shop and COULDN"T FIND A THING regarding the firing order and point gap. I guess I didn't know how to use the search cause I'm sure it is on here. I did see ONE post and it said the firing order was CCW with #1 at the front of tractor. hah.


LeoinMI wrote:
(quoted from post at 05:16:12 11/15/12) Gap for points is .25. Firing order is 1-2-4-3 CLOCKWISE starting with #1 at rear of distributor. You need to switch #2 & #3 wires according to how you presently have them connected.
Well, RTR, if it don't run as you have been told, don't give up..........#1 CAN be any one of the 4 holes in cap.....it just depends on how someone installed the distributor. Rear, front, toward engine, away from engine is all arbitrary. Factory did it one way, but any of the 4 are equally fine.......as said, just depends on how distributor was installed. If one doesn't work for you, just rotate every wire one slot & try again and after 4 tries you will have covered all possibilities.
 
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David G
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I am thinking here, but wouldn't 1243 in one direction be 1342 in the other. Do the first two pistons come up together?
 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc Reply to specific post Reply with quote


A friend who is pretty sharp with all things mechanical told me once that ALL four cylinder motors are 1243.
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc Reply to specific post Reply with quote

David G wrote:
(quoted from post at 22:03:21 11/14/12) I am thinking here, but wouldn't 1243 in one direction be 1342 in the other. Do the first two pistons come up together?
NO! Rolling Eyes
 
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David G
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Farmalls are 1342, the two outer cylinders come up at the same time and the two inner ones do. I guess you could grind the cam for either firing order.
 
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Jim.UT
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The N-series front mount distributor is CCW but the
Hundred series round distributor is CW. I made the
same mistake once on my 850. It only takes once!
 
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RTR
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I got the firing order right and still won't start. Wonder if the PO changed something?? Looks like I need to go ahead and time it. Anybody in here have a good guidance on timing this tractor. And to think..... I thought I was gonna get by without a manual

Jim.UT wrote:
(quoted from post at 09:18:37 11/15/12) The N-series front mount distributor is CCW but the
Hundred series round distributor is CW. I made the
same mistake once on my 850. It only takes once!

 
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RTR
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Here is the way I've got it wired. I will check the points gap tomorrow with a gap gauge. I bought a new one today. I fires right off but backfires and spits and sputters and won't stay running.....or begin to. I never touched the distributor so the timing shouldn't be off. All I did was remove the dist. cap and rotor button and tape over the "dust cap" while painting. Points, plugs, rotor button, condenser, coil, and plug wires are all NEW.

The tractor had sat outside and i worked on it for a little over 1 year before finishing it. It has been a "backburner" project. Is it possible that the valves could have gotten stuck while sitting?? It ran PERFECT when I drove it to where it was in July 2011.


 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc Reply to specific post Reply with quote

RTR wrote:
(quoted from post at 17:12:53 11/16/12) Here is the way I've got it wired. I will check the points gap tomorrow with a gap gauge. I bought a new one today. I fires right off but backfires and spits and sputters and won't stay running.....or begin to. I never touched the distributor so the timing shouldn't be off. All I did was remove the dist. cap and rotor button and tape over the "dust cap" while painting. Points, plugs, rotor button, condenser, coil, and plug wires are all NEW.

The tractor had sat outside and i worked on it for a little over 1 year before finishing it. It has been a "backburner" project. Is it possible that the valves could have gotten stuck while sitting?? It ran PERFECT when I drove it to where it was in July 2011.



You don't mention the little spring clip that holds the rotor tight. Didja put one of those in there too?
 
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RTR
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Spring clip? Was the new one supposed to come with one? The rotor button is really tight once put on the center of the distributer. It's actually kinda hard to tell if it is down on it in the correct place it is such a tight fit.

This is my first Ford to fix up, so I really don't know what the spring clip is. I'm used to Farmalls. ha.
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc Reply to specific post Reply with quote

OK, now that you have the order down & have tried your RED position, try each of the other 3 positions shown. Same order, but different timing.

 
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