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Farmall m - whats up?


 
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north puller
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:06 am    Post subject: Farmall m - whats up? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

atached is a graph showing the pto torque curve of 2 farmall super m motors. The bottom is a pure stock, somewhat worn out 264 inch super m. The top is a somewhat built up 281 inch motor with higher compression and a cam.

Can anyone tell me why the torque takes a dive the way it does in the circled area? What might be going on here?

The tractors were dynoed on the same dyno, the same day. A M&W slide chart was used to calculate HP, then the HP and PTO speed were used to calculate torque.

I dynoed 3 other tractors that day, (not farmalls)and no other tractor experienced this dive in torque at 400-450 pto rpm which makes me think that it is nothing to do with the dyno.

Any idea what might be going on with these super m motors?

 
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Aaron SEIA
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Farmall m - whats up? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Just my SWAG but is it the way the Farmall gov is working?
AaronSEIA
 
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Ed Carlsen
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Farmall m - whats up? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Just a thought carbs on farmalls frosting or was the same fuel used in the farmall tractors (high octain?)not enough compression to burn that fuel?
 
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johns
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Farmall m - whats up? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I think the cam has the biggest effect on the torque curve and where it climbs and drops. Surprising it is in about the same range on both tractors.
 
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Roger in Iowa
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Farmall m - whats up? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sticky advance mechanism in distributor?
 
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CLIFF S
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Farmall m - whats up? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My SMTA would Change like that too But it was the time the Gov Opened up all the way!

I Changed the Gov Spring to a Stiffer One and it Helped make the Gov Smoove Out and Gained about 2 Hp at 540 on the pto!

Cliff S
 
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north puller
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Farmall m - whats up? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It is not the gov. For the sake of the dyno test, the 281 had a very stiff spring. Likely would give 2500 rpm or higher. I loaded the motor up at part throttle, then opened the throttle up all the way. I then baked off the dyno till rpm's cam up to 700 pto. I didn't want to let it go any higher and didn't feel the need as I run slower than that at a pull. The gov was for sure wide open all the way.

The dist in this tractor has a 40 deg plate in it - could it be something to do with ignition timing and a change in the advance at that rpm? Would a dist with a 30 deg or 25 deg plate be a better choice?
 
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CLIFF S
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Farmall m - whats up? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The More Compression the Less timing advance to Loug well!

I would Try a Distubitor with Less Advance and make Shure it works Smoove on the Advance and not hanging up!

Cliff S
 
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High Octane
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Farmall m - whats up? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

north, use stiff advance springs, or lock it up all together like a mag. itll help.
 
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MLPANKEY
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Farmall m - whats up? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

main thing is cams advanced to much. distributor needs advanced lockout and timed for initial timming . my two cents
 
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north puller
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:42 am    Post subject: Re: Farmall m - whats up? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

How may motor rpm's will the tq curve shift with 1
deg change in cam timming?
 
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MLPANKEY
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Farmall m - whats up? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

north puller wrote:
(quoted from post at 06:42:25 11/19/12) How may motor rpm's will the tq curve shift with 1
deg change in cam timming?
I wish it was that easy . A cam with a duration of 200 @50 should be maxed out by 3000 or a tic above when put in straight up but rod length etc is variables that change (general)characteristics .
 
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Dodgeit
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: Farmall m - whats up? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

MLPANKEY wrote:
(quoted from post at 13:31:27 11/19/12)
north puller wrote:
(quoted from post at 06:42:25 11/19/12) How may motor rpm's will the tq curve shift with 1
deg change in cam timming?
I wish it was that easy . A cam with a duration of 200 @50 should be maxed out by 3000 or a tic above when put in straight up but rod length etc is variables that change (general)characteristics .


Although it could be a timing issue. I have seen simalar results when a clutch is slipping. Especially since you mention pulling the throttle open from partial. My guess is clutch slipping.
 
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MLPANKEY
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: Farmall m - whats up? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Dodgeit wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:56:51 11/19/12)
MLPANKEY wrote:
(quoted from post at 13:31:27 11/19/12)
north puller wrote:
(quoted from post at 06:42:25 11/19/12) How may motor rpm's will the tq curve shift with 1
deg change in cam timming?
I wish it was that easy . A cam with a duration of 200 @50 should be maxed out by 3000 or a tic above when put in straight up but rod length etc is variables that change (general)characteristics .


Although it could be a timing issue. I have seen simalar results when a clutch is slipping. Especially since you mention pulling the throttle open from partial. My guess is clutch slipping.
True I would have thought that would be ruled in or out by the dyno not being able to pull engine rpms down.
 
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