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Power Steering


 
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Jim Bartnick
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:38 am    Post subject: Power Steering Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Have a Char-lynn steering unit and want to convert it to the tractors hyd system on a SMTA with a flow control valve, will this affect the hyd system performance for plow or disc usage and does anyone have a diagram or know where to get one?
 
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IH fan
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: Power Steering Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Jim Bartnick wrote:
(quoted from post at 13:38:27 11/26/12) Have a Char-lynn steering unit and want to convert it to the tractors hyd system on a SMTA with a flow control valve, will this affect the hyd system performance for plow or disc usage and does anyone have a diagram or know where to get one?


Probably not enough for you to notice except when the engine is idled down. The "priority side" of the flow divider will go to the steering torque generator, usually about 2 1/2 to 3 gpm. the balance then goes tothe rest of the hydraulic system. I'm not sure what the maximun (high engine rpm) is on the SMTA pump, but I'd guess no more than 10 gpm. Idle the engine down and you see what happens... there isn't much left for operating anything else. Hydraulic systems are not 100% efficient, so you can not depend on having anything left at a low idle. I have a Char-Lynn TG on my 240U and at idle, I do not have flow to raise the 3 point... I need to get to about 1/3 throttle for it to operate dependably. I imagine the SMTA has a larger pump, and since the TG will take the same with either tractor, you may hve a little to operate on at idle. I doubt you will raise a disk at idle though.... rev it up and it won't be a problem.
 
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Bob M
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: Power Steering Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a Super M with Charlyn PS. The PS torque generator is powered by the live pump using a priority (flow divider) valve.

The system works great. Only time it affects flow to the hydraulic remote is if you turn the steering wheel fast with the engine at slow idle. This temporarily stops flow to the remote until you stop turning the steering wheel. However with the engine running at speed there is no noticeable reduction in hydraulic performance.
 
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Matt Weltz
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: Power Steering Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Your power steering will need 2-3gpm to work; your factory pump probably puts out 12gpm. If your running a loader alot, yes you would probably notice a difference, but for just a plow or three point I dont think you will notice any difference. Im sure someone will post pictures but your pressure line from pump goes to inlet of priority valve. Priority flow goes to power steering and excess flow goes to 2-way valve. Outlet from power steering goes back to the reservoir.
 
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mike1972chev
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject: Re: Power Steering Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Agreeing with below statements.

MOST guys I hear that have the power steering off of the live hydraulics like you are wanting to do wished they had the power steering separate with it's own reservoir. If I were doing power steering,it would have it's own seperate pump and resevoir.
 
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IH fan
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Power Steering Reply to specific post Reply with quote

mike1972chev wrote:
(quoted from post at 14:07:17 11/26/12) Agreeing with below statements.

MOST guys I hear that have the power steering off of the live hydraulics like you are wanting to do wished they had the power steering separate with it's own reservoir. If I were doing power steering,it would have it's own seperate pump and resevoir.


One thing I have considered doing is to install a priority flow divider in the pressure line of the loader pump. Mine has a crankshaft driven pump for the loader and it's really a little too large for the loader... loader moves faster than it needs to. Then operate the PS off that pump, so the 3 point works better, or I would hope it does. The flow divider that is now on it may not handle the total flow from the loader pump, so I may have to get a larger one that still has 3 gpm priority. I get by the way it is, so I doubt I'll mess with it. I've also thought of getting a smaller pump for the loader since the shaft seal leaks on this one anyway. Sure wish I still had acsess to the parts I had 20+ years ago Sad I'd do a lot of updating on this thing.
 
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mike1972chev
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Power Steering Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You could even get a manually adjustable flow divider and "steal" enough oil flow from your loader pump to run the power steering like you are saying.

I just know I personally would NEVER do a flow divider off of the original "live" pump on the tractor from what all I have studied about it.
 
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LarryM
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Power Steering Reply to specific post Reply with quote

On a 400/450 you can mount an old all steel ford power steering pump up from the late sixties and seventies on the left side and use one belt to drive it and the alternator by running it in a triangle configuration. I have yet to try this with an M-MTA but it appears that the eaton pump that ford used in the 50s for power steering on their cars is the same or similar to the eaton pump that char lynn used. I write all that to say that if I was looking to put power steering on an M-MTA I would use a ford power steering pump from the fifties and I Would convert the small fuel tank from a duel fuel setup as a reservoir. This of course requires a bunch of fabricating and fitting but the result would invisible to the casual observer. The fifties pump often used a remote resvoir and this reservoir could possibly be used as well. I would do this in conjunction with the eaton/char-lynn torque booster. I am certain some day I will do this I just have not had the need or the time. We probably will do it on my Dad's sometime soon. He keeps talking about putting power steering on it. Back to your original question. It has been our exerpience that a 400/450 hydraulic system works better without the priority valve.
 
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brian brooks
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Power Steering Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Could this be done with a behlen ps motor? I have one off a massey 44 and would like to put it on my farmall m if so what pe pump would you use. Also sorry for the hi-jack
 
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mkirsch
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:56 am    Post subject: Re: Power Steering Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You only need a flow divider if you have the factory "live" pump, and you want to use it to operate the power steering.

In your case you would want to get a junkyard power steering pump, mount it on the front of the M's engine, and belt drive it off the crankshaft.
 
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