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JD-Killefer 4 bottom roll-over plow; Won't roll-over!


 
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kjones95206
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:10 pm    Post subject: JD-Killefer 4 bottom roll-over plow; Won't roll-over! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I recently purchased a John Deere-Killefer 4 bottom, heavy tillage, 2-way, moldboard plow; model 4FD. The plow was made sometime in the early 1960's and I can't find much information about the plow. The problem is the plow won't roll-over completely. It raises but it just won't go over-center to completely roll-over. I don't know how the hydraulics are designed to accomplish the roll-over. There are two, what appear to be, hydraulic values at the front of the plow. The top valve controls the plow depth. The bottom valve feeds another valve that appears to be a part of the roll-over process. I'm not sure where to begin troubleshooting, the first hydraulic valve, the second, or the cylinder. Any information about this plow will be appreciated.

 
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Tx Jim
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:04 am    Post subject: Re: JD-Killefer 4 bottom roll-over plow; Won't roll-over! Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I viewed parts catalog 781 for a John Deere-Killefer 4FD plow and the rotary selector valve(AK35353K) you mentioned doesn't show a parts breakdown. I did not locate the other 2 valves in the PC. If I was going diagnose the plow I think I'd start by disassembling the the RS valve.
 
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Naylorbros
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: JD-Killefer 4 bottom roll-over plow; Won't roll-over! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

HI!! I will try and help a little. The pictures from the owner
manual I have posted are from a 4200 series John Deere Plow
but they use the same rotary selector valve as your plow. The
valve its self is no longer available from Deere. The seal kit is
part number AA15571. When rolling the plow bottoms from one
side to the other the roll over cylinder first retracts to bring the
plows to the mid point of the rollover and then extends to finish
the roll over. This valve changes the flow of the oil in the
cylinder from retracting to extending without you having to do it
on the tractor. If the cam and the valve are working on the plow
all you should have to do it hold the lever on the tractor in the
direction that you want the plow to rollover until the roll over is
complete.
Good luck


 
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kjones95206
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: JD-Killefer 4 bottom roll-over plow; Won't roll-over! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for your help fellows. The information is very helpful and it gives me a place to start. I ordered a seal kit for the valve this morning from my local JD dealer and I should have it on Monday. According to my dealer, the rotary valve was discontinued in 1990 at its price at that time was $632. My valve doesn't appear to be leaking but I am going to use the kit to re-seal it regardless and hopefully eliminate it as a possible problem. I have seen a picture of the 4FD plow when new and it does not have the two front stacked valves that mine has. I am going to do some homework on why those valves were added and exactly what their functions are.
 
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CJinMI
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:38 am    Post subject: Re: JD-Killefer 4 bottom roll-over plow; Won't roll-over! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

They look kinda like a cushion or a lock valve.
Added on for??
 
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kjones95206
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: JD-Killefer 4 bottom roll-over plow; Won't roll-over! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have learned that the two valves on the front of the plow are Gresen 3100 "cross-port relief" valves. According to a technical representative at Parker Hannifin Corporation, who purchased the Gresen Hydraulics company, they are designed to eliminate or reduce shock, surge, or overload conditions on the hydraulic cylinders and motors. They were not on the original plow from JD so my assumption is that they are optional and were added for some reason sometime after the plow was originally purchased. Because they are apparently optional, I am going to see if this cross port relief valve is the problem by by-passing the valve and see if the plow will roll-over. It is my assumption that because the roll-over cylinder is not leaking then it is working properly and it is not a possible cause for roll-over failure. If the cylinder could be defective while not leaking then someone please correct me.
 
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Ken11487
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: JD-Killefer 4 bottom roll-over plow; Won't roll-over! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

What tractor was common to pull that plow back in the day?
What will you be pulling it with today?
I wonder if the size of the plow requires a heavier tractor to handle it than you would need for a regular 4 furrow plow?
Sure would like to have one around here? Nice find!
 
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Tx Jim
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:15 am    Post subject: Re: JD-Killefer 4 bottom roll-over plow; Won't roll-over! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

kjones95206 wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:43:38 11/30/12) They were not on the original plow from JD it is my assumption that because the roll-over cylinder is not leaking then it is working properly and it is not a possible cause for roll-over failure. If the cylinder could be defective while not leaking then someone please correct me.


I suppose that's the reason I couldn't find the 2 valves in question in the parts catalog. Yes I think you're correct on the hyd cylinder that is supposed to turn plow. Is the rotation part of frame greased so as to rotate freely with no binding??
 
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kjones95206
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: JD-Killefer 4 bottom roll-over plow; Won't roll-over! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

A John Deere brochure indicates that the plow was paired with the JD 8010 all wheel drive tractor. I am going to use a Caterpillar D6D SA to pull the plow. The D6D will have plenty of power to pull the four bottom plow and because the tractor does not have a 3-point hitch, I needed to find a pull-type plow.
It's raining and windy here is northern California this weekend so I can't work on the plow. The question about the plow binding is valid and I will check it out. It's a very heavy duty plow and based on my observation, the frame does not appear to be sprung but one never knows.
 
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Tx Jim
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: JD-Killefer 4 bottom roll-over plow; Won't roll-over! Reply to specific post Reply with quote


kjones95206
That sure looks like a "lot of tractor" to plow.
 
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