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Any gun Smiths here

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old
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:52 am    Post subject: Any gun Smiths here Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ok heres the deal I have a Mauser Modelo Argentino 1891 Manueactura Loewe Berlin Serial number N7459. Been told this is a 7.65 Argentina. But there are no markings on it to know for sure what caliber it is. I have tried to shoot 7.65 in it and they seem to chamber well but when you pull the trigger there is no bang. I am thinking either the firing pin is bad or the firing pin spring but not sure and would love to get this rifle to work again
Thanks
 
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Billy NY
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Any gun Smiths here Reply to specific post Reply with quote

No gunsmith here, but am curious. Is the ammo still good ? Or, what does the primer strike look like after you pull the trigger? That is if the round is a typical centerfire. I've seen week struck rounds before, that did not fire, last one was an M1 carbine that I can recall. You could see the difference.

The other thing is not being able to confirm the caliber unless you could compare a detailed sketch of the round and the chamber ? How do they do that in a situation like that, if there is no real marking, or any information to go by?

Interesting dilemma on an old mauser, kinda why I am curious, always enjoyed working on firearms since a young kid, cleaning, maintaining, as well as minor repairs, nothing risky, if I won the lottery as many say, I think I'd go to gunsmith school, be nice even if no lottery LOL, very interesting to me!
 
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old
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: Any gun Smiths here Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Been a while since I tried to fire it but if I remember right the primer had little to no dent in it so that is why I think either the firing pin or spring is bad. I do have the world guide to gun parts catalog that shows a good brake down of the gun and thinking about opening it up to see if I find a broke part or spring. If it is a bad firing pin I have a friend who I may talk to about machining me one since that is what he does for a living and has a lacht (sp) at his home. Just another one of those guns I got years ago from some one who owned me $$
 
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Rich_WI
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Any gun Smiths here Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Billy NY wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:32:00 12/02/12) The other thing is not being able to confirm the caliber unless you could compare a detailed sketch of the round and the chamber ? How do they do that in a situation like that, if there is no real marking, or any information to go by?


You make a chamber cast and take measurements off of that.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/chambercast/index.asp

You can buy cerrosafe here. http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/barrel-blanks-tools/barrel-chamfering-accessories/cerrosafe-reg-chamber-casting-alloy-prod384.aspx
 
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MarkB_MI
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Any gun Smiths here Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would start by pushing a soft lead slug down the barrel, then mike it to see what the bore diameter is. If it's .311, then there's a fair chance it is 7.65 Argentine. But there's no guarantee it hasn't been rechambered for a different cartridge, .30-06 for example. Only a chamber casting will tell for sure.

The misfire could be due to excessive headspace, a common problem with surplus rifles. One really shouldn't shoot a surplus rifle without first checking headspace.
 
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fatbob50
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Any gun Smiths here Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It is a 7.65 x 53 Argentina. They only made them for about 2 years and then they switched over to the 1894, which was a different caliber. The shells are plentiful for the gun. You can also still buy the old military rounds, but some of them tend to misfire. It is an excellent gun to restock and make into a nice deer rifle. They also make an after-market safety for that gun, so that you can use a scope on it. Hope this helps. Bob
 
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Bret4207
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Any gun Smiths here Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I also have an 1891 Argentine Mauser in 7.65x53. Wonderful rifle. They were superseded by the 1909 Argentine Mauser in the same caliber. In fact at one time the Model 54 Winchester was also chambered for this excellent round. I would bet if you disassemble the bolt you'll either find the firing pin tip broken or there may be a century of accumulated dried grease causing your light strike. Hornady, Grafs, Norma and Privi Partizan still load ammo and you may find older brand name ammo on the shelves too. The ballistics are similar to the 308, maybe a trifle slower but still healthy. I find mine to be a fine carrying rifle, slim and trim, feels like one of my long rifle muzzle loaders sort of. Make sure you only feed cartridges from the mag as they are a controlled feed design and extractors can be hard to find if you bust one.

I think Bob may be thinking of the 1894 Swedish Mauser which was followed by the 1896 Swede. The 91 stayed in service til the 09 came along. The cartridge and some rifles were used in WW1 by Belgium and Turkey and in several South American conflicts. The 91 is a bear to restock due to the protruding mag and no commercial semi inlet stocks are available that I know of. Scoping a 91 can be done but the gun ejects more to the top than side and that can be a problem. Buehler made an aftermarket safety for the 91 at one time, but I haven't seen one in decades.
 


Last edited by Bret4207 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RGMartin
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Any gun Smiths here Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bret4207 wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:33:09 12/02/12) I also have an 1891 Argentine Mauser in 7.65x53. Wonderful rifle. They were superseded by the 1909 Argentine Mauser in the same caliber. In fact at one time the Model 54 Winchester was also chambered for this excellent round. I would bet if you disassemble the bolt you'll either find the firing pin tip broken or there may be a century of accumulated dried grease causing your light strike. Hornady, Grafs, Norma and Privi Partizan still load ammo and you may find older brand name ammo on the shelves too. The ballistics are similar to the 308, maybe a trifle slower but still healthy. I find mine to be a fine carrying rifle, slim and trim, feels like one of my long rifle muzzle loaders sort of. Make sure you only feed cartridges from the mag as they are a controlled feed design and extractors can be hard to find if you bust one.

I think Bob may be thinking of the 1894 Swedish Mauser which was followed by the 1896 Swede. The 91 stayed in service til the 09 came along. The cartridge and some rifles were used in WW1 by Belgium and Turkey and in several South American conflicts. The 91 is a bear to restock due to the protruding mag and no commercial semi inlet stocks are available that I know of. Scoping a 91 can be done but the gun ejects more to the top than side and that can be a problem. Buehler made an aftermarket safety for the 91 at one time, but I haven't seen one in decades.



A good synopsis, another alternative explanation would be the chamber having been reamed to something with more readily available ammo. I have seen 91s reamed to 30-06. Not safe in the least.
 
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Hogleg
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Any gun Smiths here Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Going to be pretty hard to make a new firing pin. It is about 8 inches long with some interesting machining work and I am sure it will need to be of a specific metal and hardened. Much easier to buy a surplus firing pin from the many Mauser parts companies. If you like, I will do a search and find you some names... I used to buy parts from a place in upstate new york 10 years or so ago, but don't know if they are still in business.

I have build 5 sporter rifles from military mausers so pretty familiar with the action. I have a 1909 Argentine mauser in 7.65 in the gun safe.

John
 
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Any gun Smiths here Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Been thinking about taking the bolt apart if I can figure out how that is and have a look so. At this point pretty hard to hurt it since it will not fire as it is and I do not need another wall hanger. This one is like the other rifle we have talked about no good if it does not fire but at least I have ammo for this one
 
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Any gun Smiths here Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I do have an old catalog of the Gun parts corp but not sure if they are still around so yes might be nice to find some place to get a firing pin but I alo hope to open up the bolt in the next day or so and see what is wrong for sure
 
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Any gun Smiths here Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well since I have a number of sizes of bras on hand I can say this for sure. The 308 will not fit and the 30/06 does not fit but the 7.65 Argentine rounds I have do fit well so at this time pretty sure it is the 7.65 Mauser which all the books I have point that way also. I plan to try to open up the bolt and see if I can see what maybe wrong with it. Figure at this point it would be pretty hard to mess it up much more then it already is
 
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Any gun Smiths here Reply to specific post Reply with quote

old i have a bolt for your rifle got a number i can call you at al
 
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Any gun Smiths here Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My e-mail is always open on the site and that is the only way I give out my number due to scams etc. Or if you can not figure out how to send e-mail some have problems it is oldcoal@earthlink.net
 
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Any gun Smiths here Reply to specific post Reply with quote

old sent you an e-mail al
 
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