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Wheel Horse again..


 
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Old Roy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Wheel Horse again.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I just put on the snow blade.. still missing parts for the angle from the seat system.

I'm kinda disappointed about lifting height. maybe 3", and the chain I have it attached to is one link down from the one on the upper control arm.

I need to know it the original opposite of the 518...(Meaning Gear drive) Had the two pedals for breaking and clutching.

I am having trouble putting it in any gear, without grinding. clutching pulley seems to have plenty of travel.. Am I missing something here ? Is there a breaking system on the belt somehow to stop belt from moving between gear shifting ??
Nothing on the parts tractor , although it is older to indicate that. only an extra peddle.
 
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glgrumpy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Wheel Horse again.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Many models have a rod link from clutch control rockshaft that also goes to a brake on side of gearcase. This is if you have ONE pedal. I was told you need to adjust the brake to stop gearcase to make better/easier shifts. This can be adjusted by the yokes on the rods. Always easer to see the gizmos with back wheel, fender pan and console covers off tractor. At least try the console cover and wheel off to see better.
ON the lift, try cain links in diff holes in lift bar or maybe on the blade end? Moving just one hole makes quite a diff. Too much lift and you can't "lock" the blade in raised position with hand lift. They don't go real high tho.
 
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joe csuti
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Wheel Horse again.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you're trying to shift/run tractor with with belt cover off this is the most probable cause of grinding problem as wh tractor clutching mech is designed to work with belt cover on.

Look at inside of belt cover,depending on yr of tractor it will have a guide rail welded to inside of cover or a lip on bottom edge of cover.In operation when clutch pedal depressed,this causes belt to slack,lower loop of belt drops onto rail/cover lip and supports belt,all slack in belt is now transfered to upper loop causeing belt to move forward & disengage eng pulley,without cover on & lower loop not supported both loops of belt keep dropping due to their own wt,keeping belt engaged with eng pulley.

Two other possible causes of grinding,if cover has rail welded inside same,with cover installed look from flywheel side of eng into belt cover,confirm that belt on TOP of guide rail,NOT UNDER,belt won't disengage if it is under,other possible cause wrong belt size,wh clutch mech very sensitive to belt length,1/4"-5/16" either side of oem length belt clutch may not work or not work correctly.

For more lift on blade move chain to outermost hole in arm that lift cable for clevis hitch normally connects to.
 
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Old Roy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Wheel Horse again.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ok thanks! I'll check into that tomorrow.

Being as this was a Hydro and converted it only has one pedal I have seen others with this body style has two on the gear drives.
 
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Old Roy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Wheel Horse again.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Good info there Joe!
I'll pull off that cover tomorrow as well.

Just a thought that the Hydro covers may not have that "rail" set up since the belt is tight at all times.
 
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Old Roy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Wheel Horse again.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Joe, glgrumpy, amd Mainman.... this is what I have. The cover don't have a rail on it.


The only thing I see for a belt stop is just behind the engine drive pulley, with no other evidence of a belt stop, or guide. (Seems to be on the wrong side of drive pulley to force it to release from pulley) ???

The rear driven pulley has nothing around it, and I don't know if there should be

I did notice the belt is rubbing a bit on the metal ( top side of belt) on the steering tower. Do you think it to be a length problem? The clutching system seems to work as it should , the belt never came off according to previous owner, but he never minded the gear clashing.
 
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Maineman
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Wheel Horse again.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Old Roy,
I believe that the belt support brackets you need actually bolt
on the side of the tractor, under the belt cover.
When you remove the belt cover, there should be two brackets, one short about 1-1/2", and one long one maybe 9".
If you go to partstree.com they have exploded assembly drawings you can look at.
If you post a picture of the side of your tractor with cover removed, I may be able to tell better.

Joe
 
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joe csuti
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Wheel Horse again.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Going back & looking at pic's you have in orig post I now suspect tractor a 416-8 which was made 85-92,the 516h was only made for 1 yr(8Cool,the dash support,dash & hood were probably a transplant from a 516h,this being said after doing some checking at partstree & toro websites the drive belt,trans pulley & belt covers are different pn's between the 416 & 516h,for a 416 the belt is 82"x5/8",for the 516h the belt is 83"x5/8",as far as actual diam of trans pulley this is something you'll have to try & find out,possibly one of the other guys with a 416 or 516 can measure their pulley & let you know diam of same,belt covers appear to be the same in assembly drawings for each tractor.

In last group of pics you posted in 2nd one rod by eng pulley with belt laying on it,the rod is just a guide to feed belt into cover,although on some mod tractors this can be adjusted to change spaceing between belt & pulley,you need owners manual to check this out.

If this tractor is a 416 if you look at arm that idler pulley is mounted you'll see a tab guide on arm,depending on angle of arm this tab serves a dual function,it keeps belt from jumping off idler pulley and as angle of arm changes when depressing clutch pedal acts as a friction brake for belt by rubbing on back side of belt & also stops belt from kicking back after it has moved forward to disengage eng pulley.If drive belt wrong size or trans pulley changed it's going to take some time/money to get problem sorted out & get clutch back to where it should be to operate correctly.If you're on speaking terms with previous owner find out if he changed trans pulley or eng pulley.
 
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Old Roy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Wheel Horse again.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes this was a Hydro the 416 H I didn't know what they called the gear drive. Guessing what you say is the 416 8 Previous owner changed the rear over to the gear drive.
He is not sure what belt he used whether it be from the original Hydro or an extra he had for his puller.

Surprises me that the belt for the Hydro is longer than the one for the gear drive. I thank you for that info Guess I'll have to go deeper tomorrow to measure it,
Also I'll measure the pulley on the trans axle, I'm taking a wild guess at 4" ( The only reason I may have doubts on this being correct is I know this thing would run circles around my 782 on the road, I know it would keep up easily with my neighbors 2 wd Gator.... Just keep checking on this post. If problems arise I'll post here..I truly appreciate the reply. Thanks again !
 
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Old Roy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: Wheel Horse again.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

joe csuti wrote:
(quoted from post at 22:48:15 12/13/12)

If this tractor is a 416 if you look at arm that idler pulley is mounted you'll see a tab guide on arm,depending on angle of arm this tab serves a dual function,it keeps belt from jumping off idler pulley and as angle of arm changes when depressing clutch pedal acts as a friction brake for belt by rubbing on back side of belt & also stops belt from kicking back after it has moved forward to disengage eng pulley.If drive belt wrong size or trans pulley changed it's going to take some time/money to get problem sorted out & get clutch back to where it should be to operate correctly.If you're on speaking terms with previous owner find out if he changed trans pulley or eng pulley.


Thanks to you , and the others. I came back and re read the posts...This is exactly what I found!!! Thanks!!
Now I just hope the wear on that top part don't try cutting the belt.

I can now shift gears without any problem though.
Do you think I may need to add a turned up piece on it so it rides more on top of belt ?

I probably never would have found this if not for this post.
 
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joe csuti
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:23 am    Post subject: Re: Wheel Horse again.. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would leave tab guide as is,all the tabs on my manual/hydro trans idler setups look similar(minus the large amount of rust)If you add a curve to edge you may defeat the function of tab.

If you replace belt(recommended)first have belt measured then buy an oem belt of the correct pn from local toro dealer as he may have the same pn=belt length lookup I have.DO NOT use a plain generic V belt with nylon/rayon cords as these belts strech,glaze & slip after they get hot also the back side is not designed for idler pulley,tabs or any other object to be in contact with backside of belt and you get short life out of belt.

If you look at most wh belts they have a wrapped sheath on belt,this slows/stops belt from streching when it gets hot & prevents glazeing/slipping & makes belt more oil resistant.After finding out length of belt you might want to consider buying a "kevlar" belt at link below,I've been buying belts here for approx 10 yrs,these belts are wrapped but have internal kevlar cords,I have 8 yrs on several eng/trans drive belts & now going into 5th spring with mower drive belt.If you goto website just type v belt in search then go thru listings as same are listed by length/width,just be carefull selecting belt when going thru listings as standard nylon/rayon belts are mixed in listings also.
belt

 
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