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To Free a Stuck Engine

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Fuddy Duddy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:17 pm    Post subject: To Free a Stuck Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm going to run this by you to see what you think. We all know one of the best selling points of an old worn out tractor is is "Don' run, But it's not Stuck"
A stuck engine can be very difficult to deal with. You can't remove the crank because you need to rotate the engine to do so.
I just picked up an Oliver Cletrac with a very stuck engine. I'm not calling this "OT" since it could apply to an 'N' or anything else.
The head and oil pan had been remove when I got it. Been off for four years. It is very stuck. For the last week I have had it soaking in MMO. But after reading a preveus post I plan to change that to ATF and acetone. But before i do I plan to hone out what rust I can and even do a little hand sanding to remove as much rust I can. Then let it soak a while.
Then I plan to cut a piece of 3/4 ply would that I can bolt to the block where the head would go. I've got some Oak 2X4s. Where the cylinder are I plan the JigSaw openings in the ply wood just big enough to fix the Oak thru. The plywood will hold the 2x4s in place and also protect the block if I miss a blow with the hammer, I plan to take a shop hammer and go to work, hitting each one, one at a time. Going down the row. Getting a bigger hammer as needed.
Sound like a plan?
Or I'm I just going to bend the rods?
O'course I'll have the Machine Shop check the the rods over good when they do the machining.
Any thoughts on this?
Anyone have a better Idea to unstuck and engine?
 
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souNdguy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: To Free a Stuck Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote

wouldn't be the first time I put a piece of wood on a piston and whacked it to get one moving.

at this point.. you don't have much to loose.. Wink you are starting with a broke engine.. ;)

if the pistons are aluminum.. discount this.. but otherwise a lil clr/naval jelly or iron eating driveway cleaner poured in for a bit WILL eat the rust.

past that.. the loosen juice cocktails and a lil grunt work usually prevail..

keep us posted.
 
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Den N Ms
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: To Free a Stuck Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Fuddy Duddy,You might try cleaning out any thing that is in the cylinders now with old rags ect.Use an old ball hone and try to remove all the rust on the walls of the cylinders you can.Blow out around the pistons with a blow gun.Then cut a oak 2x4 to put between a bottle jack and one of the two lowest hanging rod caps on the crankshaft.Put the jack under the crank throw and jack up till it has lots of pressure on it.Get some muriatic acid from the hardware store and pour some in a glass jar or plastic cup.Be careful not to get it on you or spill it.Pour it into cylinders covering the pistons say 1/8" deep so it can run down the walls and remove the rust.Put some cardboard under the engine to keep the acid off the floor.Walk away and let it soak a few hours.Did they come loose?Does it need another shot of it?It should be loose by the next morning.If its not dry them out with rags or paper towels.Put some rags or paper towels on top of them to keep it from splashing up the sides,wear goggles Tap them some the next day with a block of wood.
 
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ZANE
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: To Free a Stuck Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The best way I have ever found to un-stick a stuck engine is using a process I came up with years ago. I have a cheap air impact chisel that I put a blunt tool in. I cut out a round piece of 3/8" plate about 2-1/2" diiameter round and welded a big 1/2" nut in the middle.
All you have to do is place the plate with nut in the middle of the piston and then the impact tool in the middle of the nut and start hammering. Some type of penetrant should be used around the piston. You will be able to tell when the piston begins to move in the bore because it will start to wiggle where it didn't when you first started vibrating on it. Go the next piston and do the same thing till each piston is free. Once you get all of them free have somebody put pressure on the crankshaft trying to turn it while vibrating on one of the pistons that ia about half way down the bore.

It will work!

Zane
 
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ZANE
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: To Free a Stuck Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Allready had this in my files.


STUCK ENGINE
I have an old impact chisel tool. years ago I fabricated a round flat piece of 3/8" plate and welded a big deep nut in the middle of it. When I get a stuck engine I take the head off and pour diesel fuel on top of the pistons and them take the impact with a flat ended tool in it and sit my fabricated tool on top of the piston and let it hammer. I've never failed to loosen the worst stuck and rusted engine with this thing. The crank won't move with the first two or three but when that fourth one breaks loose it will usually begin to move the piston down. Believe it or not it will usually loosen the stuck rings too because they are what is stuck to the cylinder wall and the vibration will wiggle the loose most of the time. You can tell if the rings are free by looking down beside the piston at where the end gap is and wiggling the piston back and forth to see if the rings move.
Zane
 
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Bill Rowles
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: To Free a Stuck Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I am afraid beating on the pistons will deform and crack them....if you are not interested in saving them, that is no problem I guess. I had success un-sticking an old A-C tractor by cleaning the cylinders best I could with head removed and filling cylinders with PB-Blaster,covered with Marvel Mystery oil. As the engine soaked for about a week, I put the transmission in highest gear (1:1 ratio) and rocked the tractor back and forth by pushing on the rear tire periodically.....after several days, the pistons started to "quivver" a little and after a couple more days, the engine progressed to where the pistons would travel all the way up and down. I cleaned out the oil pan and fixed the source of water leakage into the cylinders, and she runs with good compression and no oil burning with no work done on pistons, rings etc. (never disassembled them and rings and oil re-surfaced the cylinders! I was lucky but gentle and patient.
 
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Fuddy Duddy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: To Free a Stuck Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote

.I had thought of using muriatic acid. That was my next chose. That is some strong stuff. I took a plastic peanut butter jar with some in it and dropped on a crushed beer can. It smoked (fumed) for about and hour. Was boiling and near melted the jar. Impressive to see. The next day the can was near gone. The next day completely gone.
I haven't yet checked to see it the pistons are cast iron or aluminum. Don't guess it would matter much. Mostly replace them any way.
Here is a picture of what I'm working on



 
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Fuddy Duddy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:06 pm    Post subject: Re: To Free a Stuck Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote

And yes, That is Bird nest and Dirt dodder nest in there. The guy pulled the head then just placed the tin back over it. He had heard a 6 cylinder diesel Toyota engine would fit. So he wasn't concerned about this engine that could had been fixed pretty easily. I think he would had just over powered it and messed up the gears and rear end. But he never got around to it.
 
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Den N Ms
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: To Free a Stuck Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Fuddy Duddy,I have used muriatic acid on some rusted up worse than that one.It looks like the pistons are in the right position for the jack and block to work well to.Not at TDC and BDC that would make it a little harder.
 
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wes(MI)
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:17 am    Post subject: Re: To Free a Stuck Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Is that an HG? I've got an AGH sitting in my garage that needs some TLC right now. ID plate should be on the upper right firewall, It's aluminum, so don't brush too hard. You might want to check out www.cletrac.org ,lots of good info and people there too. Also Zimmerman's cletrac/Oliver has tons of parts for these crawlers. Enjoy your latest project.
 
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Fuddy Duddy
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:17 am    Post subject: Re: To Free a Stuck Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I like your idea. Now I've just got to find that air impact chisel. I've got one around here some where. Engine will have to be reworked. The guy had it for two years and it was three years into a rebuild. Guy said he never heard it knocking when a rod turned loose. Knocked a hole in the oil pan which is tin. An easy fix. I've look all around underneath. As far as I can see the block is OK. Crank looks OK too. But I wouldn't put it back together without taking it apart and giving it a complete going over.
Should be a fun project. And just what I need for all the Black Locust thorns I grow around here. I'ver already change the 2N to all steel. But it thews up the ground pretty good.
 
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Fuddy Duddy
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:27 am    Post subject: Re: To Free a Stuck Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes, It is a HG68, I have already found both of those sites. Thanks for the input.
 
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DanP
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: To Free a Stuck Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote

When we were resurrecting Model A cut downs (doodlebugs) we used to run muriatic acid through the cooling system. It will eat any sludge (and aluminum). Also good for cleaning up steel hardware. Have to rinse the iron steel real well and apply oil, because it will rust very quickly.
 
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MisterT
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:16 am    Post subject: Re: To Free a Stuck Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Yes, you CAN remove the crankshaft from a stuck engine. First, Remove the rod caps from the 2 rods that are easy to access. Second, remove the main caps. It will take a bit of doing, but now you should be able to lift the crank up and out of the journals just enough that it can be rotated 90, which will give access to the other two rod caps. Anyhow, that method worked on a severly stuck Farmall H engine.
 
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old
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: To Free a Stuck Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well since the head if off you can try this if you can do so safely. Put a tablespoon of gas in each cylinder and light it up. Do that a few times till it is almost burned away and then set a 12 volt battery on and use short fast taps on the starter. Done that on many engines with pretty good luck unless it had water sitting in the cylinders and if that is the case you stand about a 95% chance your going to have to take it all apart.
So now the question.
Which Cletrac did you get??? I have a Cletrac HG-42
 
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