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How to buy a rebuilt motor update 2- question

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upnorthwi
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:06 am    Post subject: How to buy a rebuilt motor update 2- question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Here's another question,

Is the head on a Z120 the same as a Z129?

There's now a 3rd relative who says the head is from a 20.

Supposedly the passed relative bought a 30 for the motor. Went thru the motor and did whatever it needed. Had to listen how the guy always did everything right, never cut corners. For what ever reason, the head he put on it is from a 20, but he went thru it. I take all that with a grain of salt.

This work was done supposedly mid to late 90's, so it's been sitting quite awhile, but is free.

The crank is still free and turns.

While they would not hesitate in putting it on a tractor, they will not offer a guarantee.

I guess my options are buy it and try it, buy it and tear it down or walk away.

I have a extremely stuck 30 I bought. It's history is questionable...supposedly a head issue, cracked.
My intention was to overhaul it, but I guess there is a real possibility the block may be cracked if it overheated.

I was at first thinking if this motor is good, bolt it up. If there is questions on it, I could pull the head and pan and check things as was suggested here. It seems here I should have good parts to work with where as my current motor will need sleeves and everything, if the block is good.

So buy it and check it, build it or walk away?
 
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Richard L
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: How to buy a rebuilt motor update 2- question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

According to the TO 20/30 parts book they are different numbers but I do not know what the difference in them is.
 
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Jason S.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: How to buy a rebuilt motor update 2- question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Combustion chamber size and intake valve sizes are different between the two heads.Seems like there was a thread on here that said the cooling passages was different between the two heads but I don't know on that one.But the book states they arent interchangeable. They will physically bolt on, but arent meant to be interchanged.They never cut corners but the block is greasy? If they rebuilt it and didnt clean the block chances are they didnt clean much of anything else when they rebuilt it.Thats my opinion anyway.I think you would be better off to have your block fixed instead of buying another motor that may have a cracked block also. If it was me, I would ask to take the oil pan off and look.If they wont agree to that, I'd walk and find another or have your block fixed.
 
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Dan S (NY)
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:33 am    Post subject: Re: How to buy a rebuilt motor update 2- question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If it was me and I could get it for $150 or so I would buy it even if it was just for the parts. I wouldn't go to the trouble of installing it into a tractor before taking it apart though. If it does have a 20 head that you don't need and its in good condition you could recoup some of your cash by selling it. You may be able to recondition and use the head from your stuck Z129 on the 'new' engine. Until you take apart both engines you won't know the true story of either.

Dan
 
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Dan S (NY)
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: How to buy a rebuilt motor update 2- question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Just saw below he wants $300 firm...ah well. For that price I would want to take off the pan and head to have a quick look before purchase. If everything is shiny and clean with new looking sleeves and pistons and signs of prelube used as should be in a rebuild I might spend $300. Dirty/corroded/mouse pee innards, no way.

Dan
 
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upnorthwi
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: How to buy a rebuilt motor update 2- question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for your thoughts. Strange enough, on my stuck 30, they said the head was cracked and purchased a good used head, but re-installed the bad head a year or so later. So I have 2 heads 1 good and 1 bad... supposedly.

He's not going to come off $300.

Would you give it to him?
 
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upnorthwi
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: How to buy a rebuilt motor update 2- question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I tried looking on here to, found some old posts that they interchange but thought there was newer posts that said they don't. I know the valves are different and some parts are the same, but when I don't know I'll ask here or stay with the belief that Ferguson knew what they were doing.

I guess now that you say it, I might as well tear mine down. I guess the thought was if my block is junk, I'm in a bad position of finding another where-as if I buy this one, I should have a good block. If I end up with 2, I should be able to sell it and get some of my money back.
 
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upnorthwi
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: How to buy a rebuilt motor update 2- question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Do you really think if it was done right that everything would still be nice after 10 years?

Then again, I could probably look and see if it even looks like a new pan gasket is there.
 
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Tony in Mass.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: How to buy a rebuilt motor update 2- question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I don't know if you are fixated on this thing or what, if so, just pay the man. You have heard everyone's opinion twice!
I just got onto Evansville farm and garden Craigslist, and saw atleast 5 things 'I' would check out, nice Mf's for high bucks, but a running rolling TO20 for $1000, a project for 800, and a guy selling fergie parts. So you aren't in a lonely high end market, you just got to start smart shopping.
Get on Craigslist.com
Click Indiana
click Evansville
click farm and garden
search word 'ferguson'
you will see a list of local items, and lower down a list of fergison items in the surrounding area.
The runner for a grand is in 'Brandenburg'...
 
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Richard L
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: How to buy a rebuilt motor update 2- question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If I remember now the TO 30 has a hole in the gasket to line up with a hole in the block and if the gasket is installed backwards the hole won't have any way to let liquid through maybe that is difference between the 20 and 30 heads. Anyone remember anything about this?
 
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upnorthwi
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: How to buy a rebuilt motor update 2- question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes, I'm probably fixated on it, trying to make a good decision that is not going to cost me more in the end.

Have I heard everyone's opinion twice? not exactly.

Some have said jump on it for 300, some have said don't go more than 200, some have said walk away.
So based on that, I still don't know what to do.

Now it's known that it has the wrong head on it, does that still make it a good deal or an indication of more of a problem.

Many people have the resources, knowledge and connections to get right through this, I do not.

Many people have the confidence to jump right in, I don't.

Many people can hook up their hauler to their truck and drive 3-4 hours to get that runner for a grand, but I don't have either, I have to pay a wrecker to go get it, or try to find what I need close.

Sorry if I've aggravated you by asking questions and showing my ignorance and lack of knowledge.

Maybe it's time to just sell it all and walk away.
 
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Dan S (NY)
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: How to buy a rebuilt motor update 2- question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I think I would go look at that '1948 Ferguson' for $800 just to see what it is. Could be anything...

Dan
 
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Dan S (NY)
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:47 pm    Post subject: Re: How to buy a rebuilt motor update 2- question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It depends on why you bought your TO30 in the first place. If you just need a tractor to do work around the place and have no other interest beyond that, you could sell what you got and look for something that already works. On the other hand it you don't need to use it any time soon and are interested in learning about these old machines, get the blue Ferguson service book, read it through and start taking things apart. You gain confidence by practice and learning from mistakes. If you already have a seized engine you don't have much to lose anyway.

Dan
 
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upnorthwi
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: How to buy a rebuilt motor update 2- question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I like the old tractors, wanted to restore one and maybe use it for some mowing, maintaining the drive etc, but more for saving a piece of history for my son and grandson.

I bought an 8N that needed the carb fixed. Found out later the motor was trash. I think that was 41200, sold it for maybe 900.

I liked the Ferguson's, wanted a 35, but came across a 30 in rough shape for about 800 + hauling. I started to look for parts and came across the stuck one. She wanted 1000 firm, we traded some guns. It's very nice, just stuck. Too nice to part out. The plan now was switching motors, but I didn't want to forever scrap the other. So now the plan was to rebuild the stuck one and fix both tractors. But now, the possibility of a rebuilt or at least a running motor for 300 pops up. Thus my long battle and confusion over what to do.

I have offered them for sale, but people want the live pto, or don't want to give anything for them.

I don't need it right now, I have my modern tractor for work.

If I could find someone to teach me how to rebuild it right, I'd feel better. But I can't even find a place near me to do machine work.

A lot of people always say NAPA, my 2 NAPA's barely know what a tractor is.

I'll have to figure something out soon though.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
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Jason S.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: How to buy a rebuilt motor update 2- question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes, I said it"s worth $300.00 if it has a good block and crank. But now you have no way of knowing. You said your motor was stuck, why not take the head off of yours, take off the oil pan, take the rods loose and knock the piston, rod and sleeve out together. Take the $300.00 you save by not buying the other engine and get new sleeves, pistons, and rings for your current engine. Doesn"t that make more sense? If really need to get it running in a hurry you could always swap a TO20 engine into it. They are easier to find and usually cheaper. I bought one as an extra off of a board member here that was complete for $200.00. I just hate to see you spend $300.00 for an engine that may very well need the same parts your current engine needs...and if I was betting, I would say it does.
 
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