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Tractor Values


 
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RBnSC
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:52 am    Post subject: Tractor Values Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Question. Do you think a tractor that is not original is of lesser value than one that is? I talking about one that has had a transmission change or motor change. I ask this because almost every one we have has at least had the trans changed.Three of the five have had both and two are completely original.What do you think.
Ron
 
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Larry NCKS
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: Tractor Values Reply to specific post Reply with quote


IDK! But I'd prefer one that's as original as possible.
 
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Ultradog MN
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: Tractor Values Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I don't think it affects value much.
Folks who are looking to buy a Ford are looking to buy a good running machine.
If they were looking for a high dollar, 'collectable' it would be a John Deere or some such and then originality would matter a lot.
Maybe if you have an aluminum hood 9N or a true Funk V8 or some such it matters more.
Of course this is from a guy who kinda prides himself on having the most cobbled up, incorrect 3000 there is so take that with a grain of salt.
 
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Fordfarmer
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: Tractor Values Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I think it depends on if you're selling it to a collector or a user. It wouldn't make much difference to me, as long as it worked and I knew what I was buying. I'm assuming here we're talking about things like swapping a 134 in place of a 144D, or a 5-speed for a SOS, not making a power steering system out of a GM p/s pump and a pair of generic hyd. cylinders, or swapping in a brand-x engine.
I swapped a 256 gas into an early 5000 SOS that had a seized 233 diesel. Didn't matter to me or the guy who bought it that it wasn't original... I was up front with what I'd done with it, and it was all still Ford (except for some of the hydrostatic p/s system that the PO had put together - that did eventually cause some problems)..
 
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Brian in MA
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: Tractor Values Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Honestly, before I spent so much time on this forum I would have never known whether what I was buying was correct or not. And now as long as it works it really doesn't matter to me. It is good to know what you have so you can get parts if you need them, but I am not a purist, I just want it to work.
 
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wisbaker
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:56 am    Post subject: Re: Tractor Values Reply to specific post Reply with quote

What's the reason for the journey? (or why is someone buying a tractor?). And a lot of it is also dependent upon the amount and quality of the frankentractor. If someone just wants a tractor to do a little work, chores or maybe plant some food plots or move a little snow changes aren't going to make that much of a difference especially if it was a direct replacement change (i.e. 5 speed for 5 speed) or and upgrade (4 speed to 5 speed & pick up live power) or a heavier industrial front end under an AG tractor that has a loader. If the upgrade was a step back (stock IH M motor in a Super M or a 4 speed w/o live power replacing a 5 speed w/live power) expect to take a hit on value. If you're trying to represent something as rare or unusual and it isn't has Ford (or whoever) built it it'll effect value. I see some of that on the Farmall side, folks talking about a "rare" or "prototype" HTA when in fact it's a 300 with H sheetmetal, might see similar things in the Ford world in a Diesel or all fuel SOS row crop that maybe started out life as something else. As another poster said might not be as big of an issue with a Ford 'cause their handy enough most folks are buying them to WORK, they're not as much of a toy as some of the older John Deeres (2 cylinder primitive design- meaning really big and not turning to fast, made by a company that only does/did farm tractors) or even the shear nostalgia of some of the "expired" brands like IH, Case, Oliver, Minnie-Mo or Allis Chalmers. Fords aren't bad tractors but they were a little late to the mainline game here in the US. While Ford was pushing out 8ns and Jubilees IH & John Deere were doing Super M's and 60's- those were the tractors that folks made the crops with, a lot of them also had a Ford for chores and the light field work but the big tractor was Green or Red. 10 years later John Deere has the 4010/4020 IH comes in a little later with the 06's (706/806/1206)again these were the prime movers and money makers of the day for the average farm family. Go west to the wheat lands and look at the JD D's R's and 80/820/830 or the IH W-9, and 600 series tractors, Ford wasn't playing in that arena. Yes in the 60's Ford came out with the 6000, a tractor that didn't get a lot of respect BUT the follow on tractors kept Ford in the Tractor business and made an all-Ford farm a viable option but it came in a little late. Ford will always be thought of as a car company not an AG company even though the 8N is/was the most popular post war tractor. If you consider the 9Ns and 2Ns that were closer to the 8N than an Early John Deere B is to a late B they made a heck of a lot more of their ONE tractor any one else did of any one model but they were only a one model tractor line, at that same time John Deere, IH and the others were offering 5 or more different tractor sizes.
 
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Billy NY
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Tractor Values Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Mechanically sound, correctly done modifications like you describe, should not lessen the value. Crude, poorly done, and designed by the imaginative day dreamer/cobber would seem to be more of a concern when it comes to value.

If I was looking for a tractor, mechanically sound, in good operating condition, + things like tires and that everything works as it should would be the most important thing. Mine are used for work or to accomplish tasks around the place, so that and the above go hand in hand.

Now if someone overpowered it or just made modifications that would render it useless in the field, I'd more than likely pass on it.


I would certainly enjoy a hundred series ford that was original and complete, reaching even further low hours original owner, shed kept, can't seen anyone not enjoying one of those as is or to restore for light use, shows or to have one just to enjoy that or any other similar way. I still work on my old 850 and keep it in reasonably decent shape and field ready, thought its well worn and still needs much more work, without it, I'd have no firewood put up or get the fields cut, so a tractor that has been modified per what you have done, not being a picky and discerning fool, if the price was fair and the same as others not modified or have replacements that don't make it a numbers matching tractor, I'd pay the same.

My ole 850 was a real mess when I got it but ran good, and as much as I need a much better tractor here, given the work that needs to be done, just cannot afford it on the current salary, and boy have I tried to cure that, only to get to the top 3 candidates for any decent jobs, then I always get cut, worst of that is; "It don't provide no derned better tractor money" LOL!!! So.... I've somehow made it work, its been modified to LP, not very pleasant on the eyes up close, I'll bet I'd not get $2500 for it as is, but even then adding up paying jobs I've done with it, + all the work, firewood and similar things it has done or provided, I'd still not have any loss if I sold it for $2000. Cripes, what you have, when done, will likely be in better shape than what I currently have, would make sense to pay the asking price if fair, without hesitation, I'm probably not the only one in that situation either LOL !!!

Tractor economics 101 ! LOL !
 
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Billy NY
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: Tractor Values Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Pretty good point, we sold ford in the late 60's to mid 70's and as much as the thousand series was mostly well built, JD was prevalent on dairy farms here, so was IH for the reasons you mentioned, though again the thousand series was well respected, and some farms did have them, so did many smaller operations or landowners, I just saw a 2000 that came out of the woodwork, for sale, with our sticker on it, friend of mine bought a 1 owner we sold with our sticker on it, came from a similar small property owner.

The other side of it for Ford was industrial, we sold backhoes, 27 in one year to the local utility company, plus the LCG's for mowing, townships seemed to like those, I remember the town we live in bought, ( we were low bidder is more like it) a pair of backhoes, we painted them the towns orange color, and they had them for quite some time, well into the 90's. I know others had industrials and so on, but who else had the LCG models like Ford, and on the hills around here, they are or seem to be the safest tractor you could have. Ag did not sell all that well, though we did well on hay equipment, it too was not new holland, industrials were the breadwinner, and that started a lot of trouble with mother Ford because they wanted the sister dealer to sell those and us to starve, 27 + backhoes sold and they give you a hard time about it.
 
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Tony Jacobs
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Tractor Values Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hello Ron , Absolutely a NON-ORIGINAL TRACTOR is worth less money than an ORIGINAL TRACTOR just as it goes for Cars and Trucks . Any tractor any brand or color that has survived Farm Service for 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years that has been properly maintained and serviced and has retained all of it's original parts including paint and decals is a rare find especially if it has had only a couple of owners is definately worth more than any tractor that has been patched together with parts from other tractors regardless of how well it has been done.(I am not talking about properly done engine or transmission rebuilds on high hour tractors on the original cores, that is still original) There is always a reason why tractors, trucks or cars are patched together LACK OF PROPER MAINTENANCE and SERVICE. Every SINGLE breakdown on my Uncle's farm came from lack or service due to him being to cheap to do it , yet across the street my other Uncle with the Logging business was just the opposite the amount of failures could be counted on one hand during the same time period and all of us were the same Mechanics and Operators between the two . Every piece of equipment that I own tractors, loaders, backhoes, dump trucks are original even down to paint and decals except two of them(repaints) and I am either second or third owner on all of them many had very low hours when bought and a couple had 4000 and 5000 hrs on them .
 
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Ultradog MN
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Tractor Values Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have some questions:
If a guy dropped the 5 speed from a x51 or x61 in place of an x71 or x81 how would even a purist know it was done?
Casting codes?
A guy might even get close on those too if he was lucky.
How about dropping the tin from a Jube onto an X00?
Is the tractor no longer original?
If a guy added PS to his 641 could anyone tell it wasn't put there at the factory?
Is the tractor still 'original'?
Would that change be indicative of poor maintenance?
I say that generally people buy Fords for their utility. Not for originality. And not their collectability.
And aside from a few purists here who Really know these tractors and would love to find a very nice 'original' unit, most people would actually pay more for a clean nice running unit no matter what the tin or tranny or casting codes said to the purists.
 
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souNdguy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Tractor Values Reply to specific post Reply with quote

unless i was trying to buy a complete one for colelction.. I think I am more concerned with function.. thouhg 'correct' parts are nice.. even if they are not from that specific machine..e tc.
 
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RBnSC
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:15 am    Post subject: Re: Tractor Values Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks Guys I appreciate your opinions. The truth is to me the more original a tractor is the better I like it. Like Tony said it probably has been better cared for. To tell you the truth I don't trust most other peoples work. I have seen some real messes particularly in 172 diesel engines. Wrong bearings, ring end gaps all aligned,wrong sized rings on and on.
We made some major changes to two of our tractors both we intend to keep. We changed the 850 to diesel and I really like it. I think I am going to load it up and carry it to the farm and run the snot out of it for a day or so discing.
Ron
 
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Tony Jacobs
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:47 am    Post subject: Re: Tractor Values Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hello Jerry , I was not trying to make a big deal here BUT the question was of VALUE between original and non-original tractors . As for your questions 1)yes casting numbers and dates & if it was not painted does the original paint match ? AND why was it done ? Abuse or Neglect? 2)NAA sheet metal with no change will only fit a 600 don't forget 800 dash is different, yes it can still be original just not to the original tractor, AND why was it changed ?Abuse or Neglect?3)power strg would be an upgrade & yes if the dowels were not installed in the trans. case, and by serial number if the tractor is an early one .4) no not poor maintenance. As I said Jerry the question was VALUE not why guys buy tractors, most of my tractors are Industrials(no collector value) BUT I still look for a correct tractor because more than likely it is a better tractor and from all the years of doing Equipment Maintenance for my customers the better they are taken care of the more ORIGINAL they stay plain and simple . Thanks Tony
 
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