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Hydraulic dovetails


 
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Jason Kozlowski
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Hydraulic dovetails Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It seems like most trailer manufacturers are now offering hydraulic dovetails for goosenecks. I like the idea, but it seems there are only a couple that will actually support weight, the others are not much more than a powered ramp. as they are rated. It seems that most let the weight rest on the cylinder pins, or at the best, they have seperate support props. Most don't tell you what they are rated. So does anyone own one, and how have you used it? The big question is, can you haul the weight you want on the tail?

I found one that rated the tail at only 3,000 lbs, but said it would lift 10,000. Bute trailers rates their tail to 7,500lb, and says it will lift over 11,000 lbs. They are the only one I have found rated that high. Red Rhino is building a trailer with a very heavy sliding lock, there is no rating, but it must be capable of holding weight.
 
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Beaver tail
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Hydraulic dovetails Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I wouldn't rely on hydraulics alone to hold going down the highway. If it had a locking pin to secure it would make sense.
 
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Jason Kozlowski
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Hydraulic dovetails Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes, they all have a locking mechanism. However, most only use supports that block against the cylinders, similar to what is used to hold up some farm loaders when empty. Not only is this lightweight, but it uses the cylinder itself to transfer the weight of the load onto the two cylinder mounting pins. So the design is weak, and is limited in capacity. Brute avoids this by using seperate supports that remove 100% of the weight from cylinders. The Brute is actually rated to hold 10,000 lbs, so it is actually useful. Red Rhino may have a better/stronger locking and support system, but they use lighter lift cylinders than the Brute. Red Rhino uses a square tubular sliding sub frame that slides in and out of place with a hydraulic cylinder. When it is slid into place, it would literally need to break the whole sliding sub frame before the dovetail could fall. There is no rating given for it, but I intend to call and find out. The downside is that the dovetail must be locked up to haul. It seems that the manufacturers don't think anyone would ever have a need to have it stay in the down position.
 
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Frank 41
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Hydraulic dovetails Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I was like you, trying to compare trailers. I liked the Brute but the extra cost was not worth it to me. About $4K plus going 1K to pick it up. I looked at the Red Rhino but the paint job was poor and I was worried about wear in the locking slide after some use to cause sag. Two others in my area got Performance 32" with the 10" dove. The dealer now was selling Load Max, which I bought a 34" with a 10" dove instead of a 9" one. The biggest difference was the smaller cylinders on the dove. I had them increased to 4". It has a fixed over center bracket that supports the dove, not the cylinders or pins. I have not used it much but so far I am glad I got the 10" dove. My 580K hoe drags some on the ground loading and unloading but I loaded a 08 Duramax without lifting the dove. I have not tried to lift anything on the dove to test it. The only thing I don"t like so far is the narrow and high steps. I plan to widen them. The powder coat looks nice but chips easy. I put a Harbor Freight 12K winch and solar charger on it. I now need another fuel tank for the 6.7. It dropped from 12 - 15 to about 8 - 9 with the GN.
 
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Frank 41
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Hydraulic dovetails Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sorry about the typos. Those all except the cylinder size should have been feet. I would really get better mileage if it were only 34" long. I could even pull it with my Bs!
 
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AFTERSHOCK
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Hydraulic dovetails Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I own a Hot Shot Trucking company and 3 of my trailers are hydraulic tails. All me trailers are PJ trailers and they work excellent!! At times the tail may begin to "sag" abit, but the locks simply need adjusted and maintained. Typically, they reccomend "no weight" more than about 5' back the tail, but we have hauled past that weight limit and they have worked fine. I would reccomend a PJ without question, i have 6 trailers total and have been totally satisfied with these. I am putting 100,000 to 200,000 miles on these per year.
 
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AFTERSHOCK
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Hydraulic dovetails Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I own a Hot Shot Trucking company and 3 of my trailers are hydraulic tails. All me trailers are PJ trailers and they work excellent!! At times the tail may begin to "sag" abit, but the locks simply need adjusted and maintained. Typically, they reccomend "no weight" more than about 5' back the tail, but we have hauled past that weight limit and they have worked fine. I would reccomend a PJ without question, i have 6 trailers total and have been totally satisfied with these. I am putting 100,000 to 200,000 miles on these per year.

 
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Jason Kozlowski
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Hydraulic dovetails Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have done some more research into this, and I have found that only two companies will actually put a weight rating on their hydraulic tail, and stand behind it. Brute says their trailer will lift 7,000 lbs, and transport 12,000 lbs. Larger cylinders will make it lift more. Red Rhino says their trailer will lift and transport 10,000 lbs.

I called Load trail, and looked at one of their trailers up close. Honestly, I would be afraid to put any real weight on Load Trail"s folding support system. Additionally, they wouldn"t state what it would or would not support safely. I just wouldn"t buy a trailer if there is space you can"t use.

I spoke to Brute, and saw pictures of their support. It transfers the weight directly onto the axle, which takes the weight anyhow. I think I would have more faith in their system than the sliding sub frame that Red Rhino uses. In time I think weight and vibration would wear on that sliding frame, and it would crack. Plus, I can"t seem to find anyone that knows much about Red Rhino. Additionally, I don"t feel that Red Rhino"s tubular steel construction is a plus. It may add strength in some ways, but it creates other problems. I think traditional I beam and channel construction is a better choice.

Brand to brand, I think it depends upon what you want in a trailer. Brute seems to build a well built heavy trailer, but then they build specialty heavy haul trailers too. Others like the Load Trail are clearly built lighter so the don"t eat into your capacity. They may be sufficient for many, but I have a 12k Pequea deck over that is built with heavier steel than the Load Trail gooseneck that I looked at. That was not impressive to see. right now it seems the Brute trailers makes the best Hydraulic tail Gooseneck, and since they build them to order, you can have them build whatever you can think of.
 
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Bill Caplinger
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: Hydraulic dovetails Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You all are 100% right---Brute makes the best lift and lock---Check out their demo---no one else lifts the entire load on the tail!!!!! HOWEVER that's the end of my Brute recommendations. They've had a 50% deposit for 21 months and all I've got is a lot of BS and excuses!!! Buyers BETTER BEWARE.
 
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