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Rwolfejr
Regular
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 222
Location: Western Pennsylvania
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 Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:55 pm Post subject: 2 cyl 820 intake |
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Hi,
Are any of you out there aware of anyone making a dog-legged pipe to replace the oil bath air cleaner on a 2 cylinder 820? Was looking into seeing if I could get a piece of approx. 4" diameter tube bent for the offset from the outlet of the head to the original hole in the hood. Thought a nice smooth pair of bends could make a big difference in how much air the thing would draw and lesson the effort of the draw.
Also thought maybe just a straight elbow and a k&N filter on it but was hoping to draw from out from under the hood. Maybe a bend forward then to the left or right?
I could machine an adapter for the head to fit, but we don't have a bender here so thought to myself... self... maybe somebody's already making something?
Any information appreciated...
Bob
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buickanddeere
Tractor Guru
Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 23624
Location: in front of computer
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:46 am Post subject: Re: 2 cyl 820 intake |
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Either a muffler shop or an electrical that bends large EMT
conduit.
Cool intake air is vital.
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gtx1967jewison
Tractor Expert
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 2436
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:30 am Post subject: Re: 2 cyl 820 intake |
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I would use mandrel bent exhaust tubing from Summit or
Jegs & weld up your own. 4" sounds AWFULLY large. You eant
to maintain velocity remember
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Rwolfejr
Regular
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 222
Location: Western Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:12 am Post subject: Re: 2 cyl 820 intake |
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| gtx1967jewison wrote: | (quoted from post at 17:30:15 01/04/13) I would use mandrel bent exhaust tubing from Summit or
Jegs & weld up your own. 4" sounds AWFULLY large. You eant
to maintain velocity remember |
My head was worked and ported out some and now has 3-1/16" diameter intake valves and my old intakes are now the exhaust. The folks that did this have some sort of gadget that shows the flow? I was just ball parking the 4" but it should be around that I'm guessing. Factory hole is about 3" which would be about 7 square inches. 4" would be about 12-1/2 square inches.
The shop that did the head work suggested removing the original intake and whipping something up but I didn't have time when I got the thing put together. I'm not hard core and can live with guesstimates...
I had a couple thoughts to come up with roughly 4"
One was at 780 cubic inches I'm about 173% of original and intake wise... to go from roughly 3" to 4" would be about 178% of original. Close enough?
The other thought was measure the new opening for the pair of intakes and try to roughly match it's opening size to same cubic inch tube. Because anything beyond the size of the opening at the top of the head would seem to me to be an error to the safe side?
But when you say ... want to maintain velocity... I'm not sure how bigger from the head out could effect that anyway? Wouldn't the velocity of the air being sucked in be dependent solely on the speed that the piston retracts and its volume vs. the size of the smallest cross sectional area of any part of the air path?
Unless maybe you're thinking gasoline and carburetion etc...to help atomize the fuel? This is diesel and I'd think that jamming as much air in the holes as possible with the least amount of restriction would be the most desirable scenario. Denser cold air as buickanddeere mentioned and lots of it to make heat and give the air needed to burn possibly more fuel. Then the injector tip and its spray pattern and maybe the shape of the head of the piston would be the factor for the swirl or some turbulent action for a more complete burn.
I'd like to know more about the velocity thing if I'm mistaken. I sure don't want to bother with this if there's nothing to gain or even worse... if it'd create losses.
I'll have to get measurements in the spring when the tarp comes off the thing. In the meantime I might try to ballpark the offset required and lay something out in cad to see how sharp the bends would need to be to fit in my envelope of trying to use the same hood hole.
I'll have to check but I'm pretty sure our biggest conduit bender here at the shop is probably under about 2". More I think of it probably not gonna be a hand bender for the big stuff. I'll need to ask around and see if anybody I know has access to something that'd bend something like this. And I'll check Summit to see if I could piece something together.
Appreciate the ideas and any further input you might have...
Bob
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gpuller
Long Time User
Joined: 12 Sep 2001
Posts: 536
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: 2 cyl 820 intake |
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It looks like you'd be making some tight bends that maybe couldnt be done on a bender. If you have a muffler shop around that does diesel truck exhaust they might have a mandrel bender for 4". I would bet that your going have to piece one together from tubing elbows.
Check out JP Dunn's tractor in Tunica.
http://kandlphotography.zenfolio.com/p214712625/h4e4e94e0#h4e4e94e0
Last edited by gpuller on Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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buickanddeere
Tractor Guru
Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 23624
Location: in front of computer
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: 2 cyl 820 intake |
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Flow disturbances such as bends, ledges, lips,
edges,port bowls,valve stems, valve seats and
valves are the primary restrictions.
Overall diameter of the straight sections of
flow is much less important.
The transittion from intake pipe to head port
will be vital.
Without a flow bench every step of the way and
trying dozens of different port shapes. Guessing
fluid dynamics can be hit and miss at best.
Sometimes an odd shaped kink will assist flow.
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gtx1967jewison
Tractor Expert
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 2436
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: 2 cyl 820 intake |
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Gpuller, i would love to ask you some R questions, from up
here in North Dakota, maybe email or phone whatever. Any
help would be greatly appreciated THANKS!
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gtx1967jewison
Tractor Expert
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 2436
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: 2 cyl 820 intake |
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Bob, a smaller diameter intake pprt
inncreases the velocity of the air entering,
and by changing the length or diameter
you can 'tune' the intake to actually ram
air into the cylinders at a slightly positive
pressure. Google intake tuning, ram air
etc. There are several calculators you can
use. Input bore, stroke, rpm, valve size,
runner & plenum size etc. This works on
direct injected engines also, both gas &
diesel.
Great stuff! Good luck
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Brad Vinkemeier
Regular
Joined: 06 May 2012
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: 2 cyl 820 intake |
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Ive wanted to do something similar on my John Deere 730general diesel but our rules in southern Minnesota want stock appering manifolds in our Antique hobby stock division 2
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