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Multiple Block Heater Failures-Ford 5000


 
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swinetime
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Multiple Block Heater Failures-Ford 5000 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Purchased and installed after market threaded block heater fall of 2010. After using twice it quit working. Bought another one about 2 weeks ago and it failed on second time used.

Element can't be touching metal.

Would I do any better buying an original equipment element. You'all think there would be that much difference. Or what am I doing wrong.

Help

Swinetime
 
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oldtanker
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Multiple Block Heater Failures-Ford 5000 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Are you talking about the type that goes into the water jacket? If so several "rules" have to be follower. The element cannot touch metal. You cannot plug it in until you are certain that the element is completely submerged in coolant. What does the element look like when it's burnt up?

What brand? I've had great luck with Kats brand freeze plug heaters. Never had one go bad.'

Rick
 
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retired farmer
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:28 am    Post subject: Re: Multiple Block Heater Failures-Ford 5000 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I just had one of those freeze plug heaters burn up in the Versatile night before last. Don't even want to think about replacing it. Stupid Cummins engineers put it behind a big tube on the side of the engine.
 
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swinetime
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:22 am    Post subject: Re: Multiple Block Heater Failures-Ford 5000 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The element screwed into the same whole as original equipment-into block towards the front. I've not yet removed the newest failed heater, but the first one which I just removed a little over a week ago, the element was not burnt at all, shiny as the day I put it in a year ago.

Maybe had an air pocket. I can start the tractor without the heat as long as it's not too cold. What I would like to do is install new heater and make sure there are no air pockets before plugging in. How can I be sure no air pockets?

Swinetime
 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:54 am    Post subject: Re: Multiple Block Heater Failures-Ford 5000 Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I can't see how you could have an air pocket unless you have a tremendous sludge build-up. If you remove the one that is in there now, without lowering the coolant level, and no coolant comes out, I would say that you need to do some cleaning.
 
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ed1
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:57 am    Post subject: Re: Multiple Block Heater Failures-Ford 5000 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a block heater (freeze plug) on my 5000D and it works
perfect for about 8 years now. Don't know the brand , it was on
the tractor when I bought it. I don't leave it plugged in
overnight, just use it when I need it. It takes about 2 hrs. To
heat it up in 20 degree weather. That's about all I can tell you.
Ed1
 
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swinetime
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:33 am    Post subject: Re: Multiple Block Heater Failures-Ford 5000 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Showcrop, we did loose some liquid. We had the new one ready to go with pipe tape on it and as soon as we pulled the old one out stuck the new one in. I'd guess we probably lost 4 to 8 ounces of liquid. Before plugging in new heater we topped the radiator off with antifreeze. I'm beginning to think that because we did not start the tractor and let the thermostat open up we had an air pocket. But, after installing and adding antifreeze we did plug in block heater and it for sure worked for at least 3 hours as we did some other maintenance on tractor. In my original post I noted that it worked a second time but I'm really not sure of that because son plugged it in AM and when I got home that evening the block was cold and no heat at all on plug or anywhere else. I probably wrongly assumed that it worked the second time. I'm really beginning to think that there wasn't enough liquid on the electrodes the first time and it shorted out then. On the other hand it seems impossible that the amount of liquid that came out of the hole while changing heaters could cause air pocket. I may try it one more time.

Sure appreciate everybody's help.

Swinetime
 
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Sean in PA
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:58 am    Post subject: Re: Multiple Block Heater Failures-Ford 5000 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

swinetime wrote:
(quoted from post at 08:33:54 01/07/13)I'm really beginning to think that there wasn't enough liquid on the electrodes the first time and it shorted out then. On the other hand it seems impossible that the amount of liquid that came out of the hole while changing heaters could cause air pocket. I may try it one more time.


I'm not that familiar with engine block heaters, but if it's anything like a heating element in an electric hot water heater, then not having the heating element submerged in liquid will not cause it to short out. It will cause it to burn itself up and cause an "open circuit". Sometimes it will be visibly burnt up, but other times it will look perfectly fine but just won't work.

Only a few ounces of liquid coming out when you pulled the old one out sounds like something's pretty clogged up to me. All of the coolant in the engine from the level of the plug hole up to the top radiator hose should have tried to come out.
 
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Brian Allen
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:17 am    Post subject: Re: Multiple Block Heater Failures-Ford 5000 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

swinetime
I would run the tractor at least enough to bring it to operating temperature before trying to use a new heater.
One thing I try to do on my tractors is to drill a small hole (1/8") in the thermostat plate when installing. This prevents air locking in the system, which is what burns out the heating elements, and also, overheats the motor until the air is all purged.
Brian
 
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RodinNS
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Multiple Block Heater Failures-Ford 5000 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would say you probably had an air pocket around the element that cause it to overheat and open circuit.
When you change them... make sure you refill with coolant, run the engine until it's warm and burped.
I'm not a big fan of cheat aftermarket heaters.... but I've seen the OEM ones burn out the same way... so that's not necessarly insurance.

Rod
 
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Greg_Ky
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: Multiple Block Heater Failures-Ford 5000 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I read somewhere a few years ago, I think it was in my repair
manual for my 655A TLB ( same motor as 5000) it takes a 700
watt heater, to large of heater would boil the water and creat
an air pocket and premature failure of the heater. Hope this
helps.
 
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Billy NY
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: Multiple Block Heater Failures-Ford 5000 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I went through 3 of those on the 3600, well the one that goes in the radiator hose. I had it on a timer, but I think it was like 600 watts, too, it did work great, but they never last the winter, the darned thing started easily when it was on a few hours before. I could not figure out what the deal was, coolant was changed, and up, thermostat working, I put cardboard in front of the radiator, and spread a couple of loads of manure, made sure to get it nice and hot, before plugging it in for the first time.
 
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Jerry/MT
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Multiple Block Heater Failures-Ford 5000 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Make sure the block heater is UNPLUGGED BEFORE YOU START THE ENGINE!

Without going into all the fluid mechanics and heat transfer, having the element plugged in with the engine running can cause it to overheat and fail.
Most intsallation instruction warn you about this.
 
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Robert Major
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Multiple Block Heater Failures-Ford 5000 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Must be related to the engineers that put the one in the 466 inter motor in a 5088, I changed the other day for a customer, in 40oc below with wind chill and not wearing gloves half the time!.
I needed a 1/4" more to get the heater out as it hit the starter, had to half remove the starter to get the space. The guy that designed that never talked to the guy that made the bolts to hold the starter,or the guy that designed the tractor frame rails, Had to use a 3/8 drive 12 point socket to fit the bolt heads as the 1/2" socket would not fit in the lug gap. Then had to use 18"+ of 1/2 drive extensions and a universal joint/ adapted down to 3/8 and a 3 ft knuckle bar to get enough torque to slacken the bolts then had to loosen them the rest of the way with my fingers.
good luck with yours
Regards Robert
 
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swinetime
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Multiple Block Heater Failures-Ford 5000 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Robert Major, the block heater on my tractor is located more towards the front, probably 2 to 2 1/2 feet forward from the starter. Loader on tractor- gets in the way pretty bad-and can't really use any sockets but it's not impossible. Been where you described before though. One of those 30 minute jobs that turns into 4 hours. If the weather is cold extreme you can pretty well multiply by 4. Forgot to mention, if I attempt to change out block heater one more time, and do it this weekend Saturday temp supposed to be...........................70F..............that's no lie-----here in southern Ohio.

Swinetime
 


Last edited by swinetime on Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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