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Tan Colored Oil on Dipstick - Part 2

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Tom Bond
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Tan Colored Oil on Dipstick - Part 2 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Went back this afternoon and loosened the oil drain plug. This is what I got. No anti-freeze but milky. Tractor had sat for 3 days since last running.
Thing that really concerns me is when I started it up, I immediately had full flow thru radiator. I'm thinking stuck open t'stat or no t'stat at all. The real concern is the bubbles. Can't really tell if it's from the coolant moving so quickly but I'm thinking worse. What do you guys think about the oil and coolant bubbles? Do bubbles definately indicate a bad headgasket? Was kind of looking thru service manual today. How much work changing the head gasket? Ballpark price on parts and availability? Lastly, could I damage the engine if the gasket is in fact bad by running it an hour or so to really heat it up to see if the oil clears? OK...ENOUGH questions for today! Thanks guys!
 
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Pops1532
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Tan Colored Oil on Dipstick - Part 2 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ooh, that doesn't look good. Head gasket or worse. I wonder how long he's run it like that? Anti-freeze is a lousy lubricant. My concern would be the bearings.
 
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awhtx
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Tan Colored Oil on Dipstick - Part 2 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes, it sounds like there's no tstat installed. Maybe someone removed it thinking it would "cure" an overheating problem caused by the blown head gasket. Changing the head gasket is no big deal- remove the hood and gas tank and then it's all there right in front of you. If it's nothing more than the head gasket your cost will be about $50. Of course while you have the head off is a good time to have it checked for cracks and maybe a valve job. And while you have the head off it would be easy to put in a sleeve and piston kit. And while you're putting in a sleeve and piston kit it's a good time to........
You get the idea- mission creep sets in and soon it's a complete overhaul.
 
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old
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Tan Colored Oil on Dipstick - Part 2 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Very hard to be 100% sure on one like that. Yep common to have the thermostat removed and yes that makes it hard to know if it is water pump cavitation causing the bubbles or a head gasket or worse a cracked head. As for cost a gasket set HEAD that is is less then $100 then figure oil change and antifreeze and then if your doing the work or you have it done. If your doing it and have to change the head gasket then $100 or less. Me I would change the oil and then work it for an hour or so but check the oil and radiator often. Also maybe check for a thermostat and if you find none install one so it get up to temp so you know better if it is condensation or
 
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Tom Bond
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Tan Colored Oil on Dipstick - Part 2 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Seeing that there is no anti-freeze in the oil from what I can tell, I think I'm going to start with a fresh oil change and run it hard for an hour or so. This tractor sat for 99.9% of the time in an unheated garage. Then I came along and heated it up for a 1/2 hour or so on a 25° day and shut it off. I'm HOPING just condensation but prepared for more. I'm hoping the bubbles are cavitation but we'll see. I never checked for them when it was hot. If I do need to pull the head, I think I'll give it a try myself. Will the head, rocker ams, valves and all the goodies come off as one unit? Or do the rockers, valves and all have to come off before I pull the head? If not, I'll take the whole head assembly to a machine shop and let them work on it and check for cracks. Thanks again guys! One of many more to come , I'm sure.....Oh yea, I did bring it home today.....The saga begins.....
 
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john in la
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Tan Colored Oil on Dipstick - Part 2 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I am one that looks for the worse case and cover ups. That may be wrong butI have been taken in the past and do not plan on it happening again if I can at all help it.
With that said let’s look at your story.
You looked at this tractor and could not find any problems. Oil was clear with no water and looked freshly changed.
You go back in a few days and now find water in the oil and from what others say you want to believe it is condensation.
You go back a third time and run the tractor and see bubbles of air in the radiator.

I think you know the answer to your questions you just do not want to face the facts written on the wall
While that may sound harsh I still think it is true.

Not seeing the tractor and with only what you tell us and the pictures to go on I would have to guess and say.......
This owner removed the thermostat and changed the oil to cover up an internal water leak hoping someone would buy it with one visit.
I would also be willing to bet that if you were to tell this guy no deal he would change the oil again before the next sucker came along.

If you want to investigate furture you could change the oil; run it; and come back the next day and see what the oil looks like. Or better yet put a thremostat in it and see if it over heats.

Just my thoughts on the subject.
 
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Pops1532
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Tan Colored Oil on Dipstick - Part 2 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Tom Bond wrote:
(quoted from post at 03:40:30 01/14/13) Seeing that there is no anti-freeze in the oil from what I can tell, I think I'm going to start with a fresh oil change and run it hard for an hour or so. This tractor sat for 99.9% of the time in an unheated garage. Then I came along and heated it up for a 1/2 hour or so on a 25° day and shut it off. I'm HOPING just condensation but prepared for more. I'm hoping the bubbles are cavitation but we'll see. I never checked for them when it was hot. If I do need to pull the head, I think I'll give it a try myself. Will the head, rocker ams, valves and all the goodies come off as one unit? Or do the rockers, valves and all have to come off before I pull the head? If not, I'll take the whole head assembly to a machine shop and let them work on it and check for cracks. Thanks again guys! One of many more to come , I'm sure.....Oh yea, I did bring it home today.....The saga begins.....

Hmm, no anti-freeze in the oil? Sure looks like it has anti-freeze in it to me!
Just a reminder...if you run it hard with water or anti-freeze in the oil you run the risk of tearing up the bottom end of the engine. Then you won't have to worry about "mission creep", you'll be performing a complete overhaul. The evidence IS there that the head gasket is blown. If the milky oil isn't enough to convince you the bubbles in the radiator confirm the story.

Whereabouts are you in IL? I'm in Kankakee County.
 
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old
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Tan Colored Oil on Dipstick - Part 2 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hood off first then the gas tank then the valve cover then the rocker arm assembly etc. If you do not have it pick up an FO-20 I-T manual it will help you a lot. If you need one on one help feel free to e-mail me and if you do I will give you my phone number if you need person to person help which I have done many times. Blew a head gasket on my 841 years ago. It has a loader on it so was not real fun job but did it from start to finish in less then 8 hours but I was younger and in better shape then LOL
 
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Lance in Brenham TX
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Tan Colored Oil on Dipstick - Part 2 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Water in oil, homeslice.
 
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George Marsh
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:43 am    Post subject: Re: Tan Colored Oil on Dipstick - Part 2 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Just an idea. We put a dye in air conditioners to find leaks. What would be wrong with putting a lot of food coloring in your radiator? It may or may not work. It would be easy to try.
 
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George Marsh
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:52 am    Post subject: Re: Tan Colored Oil on Dipstick - Part 2 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Tom,
A detergent oil is designed to bond water to the oil and turn white and foamy.

A non-detergent oil won't bond to water. So if you used a non-detergent oil any water should settle to the bottom of the oil pan and be able to drain out. That would definately tell you there is water comming from the radiator and not condensation.
George
 
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NoNewParts
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:23 am    Post subject: Re: Tan Colored Oil on Dipstick - Part 2 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I wouldn't run it much with that oil in it.
With that bright green antifreeze, let it sit overnite
or two, and check the drain plug again,
strong light and just loosen it enough to barely leak,
watch carefully for even a single drip of bright green.
one drip is all you need to see..........
If you see one, hopefully, it will just be the headgasket.
Do a leakdown test
with no thermostat, it will be easy to see/hear bubbles
(your compression tester hose will work with the shrader
valve removed)
TDC on each piston in turn, pressure it and look for bubbles.
strong pencil light in each plug hole should let you see a 'clean'
combustion chamber.
You can also usually smell a antifreeze leak into the combustion chamber when it's running.
(take that bucket of oil outside, clear your head a few minutes, then stick your face in the bucket...smell antifreeze?)
hopefully, it's just a headgasket, other possibilities are a head/block crack
between a water passage and a oil drainback hole.
good luck.....whatever it is, it is fixable
 


Last edited by NoNewParts on Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tom Bond
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:20 am    Post subject: Re: Tan Colored Oil on Dipstick - Part 2 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I guess there's no getting around it. The head has to come off at minimum. I have the Ford shop manual. Is the IT manual any better or the same info.? Also, will the rocker assembly come off as one piece or does it all have to come apart? I was hoping one piece. Popps, I'm in Will County. Plainfield. Just off I-55 at Rte. 30. Time to start looking for gaskets, parts, etc......
 
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Tom Bond
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: Tan Colored Oil on Dipstick - Part 2 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Old, Will have ?'s I'm sure. This is my first teardown of a head. PM not available. My e-mail is tlvm@comcast.net if you have time. Thanks!
 
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souNdguy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:28 am    Post subject: Re: Tan Colored Oil on Dipstick - Part 2 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

coolant will wipe out mains fast.
 
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