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E15, most here know is bad.

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russb wa
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:15 pm    Post subject: E15, most here know is bad. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I was shocked, shocked I say:

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2000862202001/
 


Last edited by russb wa on Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MisterT
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: E15, most here know is bad. Reply to specific post Reply with quote


The only thing shocking about that report is that Fox news reported it. Fox is usually very fair and balanced and does not report anything that is not based on fact. Obviously, in this case, Fox did not research the matter before running with it.

Those same car companies also sell cars to Brazil, and I believe it is Brazil and probably a few other countries that have cars and trucks running on 100% ethanol, and have been doing so for many years now with no damage to engines, fuel systems, or anything else.
 
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russb wa
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: E15, most here know is bad. Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I piddy da foo what doesn't live in Brasil, where its warm.
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Re: E15, most here know is bad. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

MisterT wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:32:04 01/14/13)
The only thing shocking about that report is that Fox news reported it. Fox is usually very fair and balanced and does not report anything that is not based on fact. Obviously, in this case, Fox did not research the matter before running with it.

Those same car companies also sell cars to Brazil, and I believe it is Brazil and probably a few other countries that have cars and trucks running on 100% ethanol, and have been doing so for many years now with no damage to engines, fuel systems, or anything else.
Those countries have cars with fuel systems designed for those higher ethanol levels....not your American 2010 auto. You obviously only read the headline or you would have heard the reporter quoting car mfgrs and AAA as saying E15 is OK for 2012 cars. Same cautions for E85....ONLY for Flex fuel vehicles.
I'm sure we should pay attention to you & the IA guys who will be along to say, "it is all OK", just ignore those car companies saying that they will NOT honor the warranties if you use E85".
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: E15, most here know is bad. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

russb wa wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:15:25 01/14/13) I was shocked, shocked I say:

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2000862202001/


Seems rather odd since EPA has been working on this with those very OEMS for almost 5 years now and AFAIK had arrived at this determination.

TOH


 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: E15, most here know is bad. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

TheOldHokie wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:43:02 01/14/13)
russb wa wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:15:25 01/14/13) I was shocked, shocked I say:

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2000862202001/


Seems rather odd since EPA has been working on this with those very OEMS for almost 5 years now and AFAIK had arrived at this determination.

TOH

Sounds like epa & a bunch of car makers disagree!
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: E15, most here know is bad. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

JMOR wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:50:56 01/14/13)
TheOldHokie wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:43:02 01/14/13)
russb wa wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:15:25 01/14/13) I was shocked, shocked I say:

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2000862202001/


Seems rather odd since EPA has been working on this with those very OEMS for almost 5 years now and AFAIK had arrived at this determination.

TOH

Sounds like epa & a bunch of car makers disagree!


Apparently.

TOH
 
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mhb@ufe
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: E15, most here know is bad. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

E10 has been causing a lot of problems in small engines for years (lawn mowers and generators for example) and the repair shops get grief from their customers because they have to keep bringing them in for the same problem. We advise people to use fuel treatment to prevent phase separation but some just think it is a sales pitch.

Mark
 
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Leroy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: E15, most here know is bad. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My 98 says in the book it is OK to use E85 so why would it not work in the newer ones?
 
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russb wa
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: E15, most here know is bad. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I don't exactly remember what got my thinking turned around to where I run the carb dry if there is going to be extended non use.

Stabilizer can't hurt, probably helps a lot.
 
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Old weldor
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: E15, most here know is bad. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I live in Iowa, I use e10 in my modern vehicles only.but I had a 95 ford Taurus years ago that would vapor lock in the summer on ethanol when it was 90 degrees or more.i don't use it in older vehicles or tractors.
 
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russb wa
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: E15, most here know is bad. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

"Those countries have cars with fuel systems
designed for those higher ethanol levels"

That makes me think back to my Model Airplane days.
We used silicone rubber tubing with methanol fuel
and IIRC, some rubber like neoprene for gas/diesel.
It seems one or the other, but not both. I got a
float needle for a bike carb that was tipped with
something $pecial. Just thinkin out loud.
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject: Re: E15, most here know is bad. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

russb wa wrote:
(quoted from post at 22:56:55 01/14/13) "Those countries have cars with fuel systems
designed for those higher ethanol levels"

That makes me think back to my Model Airplane days.
We used silicone rubber tubing with methanol fuel
and IIRC, some rubber like neoprene for gas/diesel.
It seems one or the other, but not both. I got a
float needle for a bike carb that was tipped with
something $pecial. Just thinkin out loud.
Back in the 70's? when the BIG 3 started exporting cars to Brazil, there were articles in car mags about the changes necessary to run on ethanol. Carbs, elastomer parts, mild steel fuel lines & tanks were among the items that would be eaten/softened/hardened corroded by ethanol. They all had to be different materials on those exports.
 
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L. B,
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: E15, most here know is bad. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

All Ethanol is a joke anyway we have 2 plants in the area, it takes more fuel to make it then you get.We send Alaska's oil to the far east and they steal crude out of the G of Mx .Yet in Utah and Colorado they set on the largest oil shale reserve in the world, and they(Shell and Exxon) were to start extracting it when crude hit $40.00 just keep spoon feeding us the BS. I avoid ethanol every chance I get. Ho I forgot to mention the Williston Basin it has more reserves then the Saudis. There is no excuse for the shape we are in with all we could be.Off my soapbox cause I have to plug my electric car in before I hit the rack.
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:46 am    Post subject: Re: E15, most here know is bad. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

JMOR wrote:
(quoted from post at 01:18:44 01/15/13)
russb wa wrote:
(quoted from post at 22:56:55 01/14/13) "Those countries have cars with fuel systems
designed for those higher ethanol levels"

That makes me think back to my Model Airplane days.
We used silicone rubber tubing with methanol fuel
and IIRC, some rubber like neoprene for gas/diesel.
It seems one or the other, but not both. I got a
float needle for a bike carb that was tipped with
something $pecial. Just thinkin out loud.
Back in the 70's? when the BIG 3 started exporting cars to Brazil, there were articles in car mags about the changes necessary to run on ethanol. Carbs, elastomer parts, mild steel fuel lines & tanks were among the items that would be eaten/softened/hardened corroded by ethanol. They all had to be different materials on those exports.


Researching the history a little deeper it looks like this is a warranty (e.g. liability) issue with the OEM's. They aren't saying it will cause damage only that they are not willing to warrant the fuel for use in anything other than flex-fuel vehicles which have been designed for very high concentrations of alcohol. They will not warrant it in their regular 2001 - 2011 vehicles and want more testing at teh 15% level before they will. The EPA and fuel producers say the current testing of E15 in non flex-fuel vehicles is more than sufficient and has OK'ed the fuel for use in all 2001 and newer vehicles. The OEM's then went to court to try and block EPA approval of the sale of E15 and lost.

In any event the vast majority of states still don't allow it to be sold and in those that do E10 is still available right along side E15 and E85. If you don't own a flex-fuel vehicle and it worries you stick with the E10. I'm guessing in 10 more years when the warranty issue is moot the OEM's will suddenly decide that E15 is OK in all 2001 or newer vehicles just like the EPA and producers did. Rolling Eyes

TOH
 


Last edited by TheOldHokie on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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